Hi Mike, You just don't get it do you? To say that one cannot make high PPM CS using flat electrodes is completely incorrect. Our generators work perfectly with flat electrodes and I have some CS that is almost 3 years old that is 45 PPM and is still crystal clear. Stirring is what makes the difference and moving the ions away from the anode is paramount to making good CS. Your constant criticism of using flat electrodes is getting a bit irritating since you don't have any experience using them. I'll say it one last time..... our generators use flat electrodes and do NOT make yellow CS.
And to say the using a MOSFET or series transistor may work better instead of a relay for shutdown is a bit presumptuous. Any leakage current can still allow current to flow in the cell. If one is not ready to completely shut the unit off at the completion of a cycle and there is some leakage, the PPM will continue to increase. A relay removes all current and voltage from the electrodes and is a much better choice as far as I am concerned. It is especially important to remove ALL voltage and current because many people are inclined to start their generator at night and have the CS ready in the morning or else start it in the morning before leaving for work or errands. At least one will be assured there will be no possible current flow after shutdown. And to say that a possible bit of static electricity or a possible spike can possibly skew the shutdown point is really stretching it. I cannot cause any of our units to shut down prematurely by running brush type motors such an electric drill near them. Come on....give it up. This isn't rocket science. A relatively simple, good design with good layout is all that's necessary. We have it. Of course the initial conductivity of the DW can skew the end PPM but we point that out in our instructions and as a matter of fact the generator will test the water at startup. If it is over 2 to 3 uS it will indicate so and the operator can then get better water. So what if the end product has a bit less silver in the water. Do you think anyone really cares? People drink anything from a few PPM's to very strong concentrations and also use anywhere from a very small amount every once in a while to a gallon per day. With such wide parameters, who's counting beans in the CS? And the simple answer to restarting the process is to do nothing more than turn the unit off and then back on. It resets itself. Nothing more sophisticated than an ON/OFF switch is necessary. Regards, Trem Williams ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Monett" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 2:24 PM Subject: [silver_list] Re: CS>SilverGen specs. > url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61919.html > Re: CS>SilverGen specs. > From: Jack Dayton > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:36:52 > > > Trem 8/12/03 8:28 AM Wrote: > > >> Thanks for your compliment. Sorry but the circuit doesn't measure > >> current. It regulates current and measures voltage drop across > >> the electrodes in the cell. I use no zener for comparing voltage. > >> I use a potentiometer to set the trip point and use an op amp to > >> operate a relay for shutdown. > > > Now, I hope you all get that, there's going to be a test later. > > (Well, there goes my grades.) > > > Jack > > There's many different ways to do it. > > Maybe this will help. (View in fixed width font.) > > Cell |\ ------- \ > ----------|+\ | | \ > Ref | \ | Relay | ^ \----- Vin > ---- | \------| | | > | | / | | ------- To Cell > / Vadj | / | | > \<-----|-/ ------- > / |/ > \ > | > | > --- > - > > When the cell voltage drops below Vadj, the op amp turns the relay > on or off, depending on how it is connected. > > The relay contacts open and remove the voltage to the cell. The cell > voltage then drops to a low value and holds the op amp in the > shutdown state. > > This is a simple approach and is used by other cs generators. A > series pass transistor or MOSFET can be used to replace the relay. > > The circuit needs some kind of bypass to allow the process to start. > It could be a simple switch across the relay contacts, but it is > probably a bit more complicated to allow the circuit to sense the > initial conductance of the dw. > > This approach works quite well for general use, but there are > several problems. One is the slope of the cell voltage changes very > slowly at the end of the process. > > If the pot is adjusted for maximum ppm, it will be very close to the > trip point at the end of the brew time, and a small amount of noise > or a bit of vibration that causes waves in the solution can > terminate the process early. So the ppm may vary from one run to the > next. Probably not enough to notice, but it's part of the process > repeatability. > > Another problem with using the cell voltage to terminate the process > is the sensitivity to the initial conductance of the dw. So the ppm > may change with different brands of dw. > > A different approach can provide much better process repeatibility. > I recently posted information on a Cheap, High-Compliance Constant > Current Source > > http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61896.html > > This can set the cell current to the desired level regardless of > changes in conductance. Then you can use the Faraday equation to > determine the brew time, and turn the power off at the desired time. > > If you have good quality dw and run at very low current density, you > can go well past the point where gray whiskers start forming on the > cathode. Even though some of the silver ions are diverted to making > sludge, the cell conductance continues to drop. This indicates some > ions are remaining in solution. > > Then, if you use electrodes that have no sharp edges or bends, you > can make high ppm cs that won't turn yellow. > > I did this with Godzilla. The electrodes are 48 inches of 12 ga > wound into a spiral. They sit horizontally in a Pyrex 2 litre > measuring cup. > > There are no sharp bends anywhere to cause production of silver > oxide from the Ag(+) and OH(-) ions at the concentration points. > > I had some problems with the hard black coat produced by the new > WallMart dw, but running a few batches with the Life dw eventually > cleaned both electrodes and they now run clean. > > Now I can push the process well past the point where the solution in > my previous cs generator would simply turn yellow. The resulting cs > gives a very strong dispersion in the salt test, but remains crystal > clear with no sign of turning color. > > So the moral of the story is to get rid of all the sharp edges and > run constant current if you want to make repeatable, high ppm cs! > > Best Regards, > > Mike Monett > > P.S. Be on the lookout for viruses. I got another one from the list > today, but my spam program kicked it out as usual. They won't run > on my system, so I have no worries. But others may not be so lucky. > > > -- > The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > > Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org > > To post, address your message to: [email protected] > > Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]> > > >
