Frank Key wrote: > Mike wrote: > > > That said, I do have to ask: Why should we expect the silver in the > > bloodstream still to be ionic? If it is complexed with something that > > the body is using as a transport mechanism, is there any reason to see > > it in a test for silver ions? > > Perhaps the issue of looking for ionic silver in the bloodstream may stem > from the in vitro tests of ionic silver that demonstrate it killing > pathogens in the lab. The claims imply that if ionic silver can kill > pathogens in a petri dish, it can do the same thing in the bloodstream. The > problem is that no one has ever found that silver ions can exist inside the > human body. >
Actually all silver compounds form silver silver ions when dissolved. Silver ions can certainly be found in the blood stream if one takes silver nitrate. I assume by silver ions you mean ions with no anion associated with it, or those associated with the OH radical. > > If ionic silver is complexed and circulated with the blood, where is the > evidence that would demonstrate the existence of such a mechanism? > > How does silver get complexed when the first thing it encounters upon > ingestion is the stomach acid (HCL)? When ionic silver mixes with HCL it > only takes a few seconds to precipitate to silver chloride. Saliva mixed > with ionic silver does not prevent the silver chloride precipitation from > HCL. Silver chloride is insoluble once formed. Some of it may be absorbed > into the bloodstream, but it is not known to have strong antimicrobial > properties. Actually silver chloride is not insoluble. It has a solubility of .89 ppm in cold water, and is higher in warm water. I believe it's solubility is much higher in hydrochloric acid, but have no proof on that. At any rate it could be argued that 1 ppm or more can dissolve in the stomach acid at body temperature, and then transport to the blood stream, where it would be diluted, and would not precipitate out as long as the concentration in the blood stream did not exceed 1 or so ppm. Thus it is conceivable that an ounce of 12 ppm CS, with 10 ppm of ionic form, could generate 1 ppm equivalent of silver chloride in the stomach, and 9 ppm equivalent would precipitate out. But as the 1 ppm in solution diffused into the blood stream, the part that precipitated out would then dissolve back into the stomach acid, so that if it remained in the stomach long enough, the full one ounce of 10 ppm ionic silver COULD still make it to the blood stream. Now, an interesting thing can happen. If the blood stream has any developer in it at all (caffine for instance, and likely some of the normal compounds in blood), this silver chloride will quickly reduce to metallic silver upon contact with any silver particles. Since 10 to 20% of the CS is silver particles, this should happen quite quickly, resulting in a slight increase in the size of the particles of approximately 44% in diameter if 100% of the ionic portion were to do this. So, in the end, no ionic silver would be detected in the blood stream, it would, in the end convert to particles. So this begs the question, why could one not simply take silver chloride, and why does silver chloride cause argyria, but colloidal silver that is 90% ionic not cause argyria. The reason is that the 10% to 20% silver particles are essential for the silver chloride to reduce onto particles in the blood stream where they will not get trapped. Without the particles, the silver chloride will circulate until it is exposed to some light, and at that point will reduce to metallic silver! Then the rest of the silver chloride will precipitate onto those particles, cause them to grow rapidly until they get trapped anywhere they were exposed to light, and the result is argyria. I agree that silver chloride does not have antimicrobial properties anywhere nearly as strong as metallic particles. > > > In seems much more likely that it is the silver particles, which typically > account for about 10% of the total silver in ionic silver products, that > are getting into the bloodstream and killing the pathogens. That was also > the conclusion of Prof. Ronald Gibbs and others at the University of > Delaware when they were doing their investigation. > > > Does your high-particulate product show up in the bloodstream as ions, > > or something else? Does ionic silver end up in the bloodstream, but > > just not as free ions available for an ISE measurement? > > When colloidal silver particles are ingested, silver can be detected in the > bloodstream within 15 minutes using atomic absorption/emission, but no > silver ions are detectable in the blood using an ISE. That is expected, any silver ions in the presence of silver particles should quickly plate out on the particles leaving no ions in the blood. > > > For silver particles to be converted into silver ions inside the body would > require that something inside the body be capable of ionizing those > particles. In theory there is no substance in the body that is capable of > ionizing metallic silver. To the best of my knowledge, it has never been > demonstrated that metallic silver can be ionized in the body. Hydrochloric > acid in the stomach will not effect metallic silver. The acids and other > substances that can ionize metallic silver are not found in the body. This is correct. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: [email protected] Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: [email protected] OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]>
