Hi Trem, I don't know if this question has been laid to rest by now, but
for what it's worth, there are two ways one substance dissolves in another
- and remains dissolved; one is in the ionic form, the other is
covalent. By the time you are down the size scale to atoms or molecules of
an element - or molecules of a compound - which is dissolved in another;
well, that is indeed "dissolved". Table salt - sodium chloride - is a
compound of two elements with very strong electrochemical properties and
dissolving it in water is an ionic process. Dissolving alcohol in water
is a covalent process, the molecules of alcohol do not dissociate into ions
the way table salt does, they just have characteristics that allow them to
commingle freely with Aitch Two Oh. Water is often represented as H-O-H,
and alcohol has a very similar O-H hanging off of the molecule; works for
them.
To make this a little more rigorous it's necessary to define "molecule": a
molecule of a substance is the smallest unit of that substance which still
retains the character of the substance. This definition, like almost all
definitions has taken a few hits, since many molecules insist on forming or
existing as pairs or other multiples with their own kind, even in
solutions. Nevertheless these pairs (or whatevers) do not continue to
agglomerate in their solvent until they "fall out of solution" - unless the
solution is super saturated - and if it is, then an equilibrium (equal
liberty, yes?) is established between the amount that can be held in
solution and the amount that will re-form as the undissolved
substance. Shades of making rock candy from sugar water!
By the way, if you can dissolve an atom you are up there with Pons and
Fleischman, and the biological transmutation folks . . . . . . . Arcane
and fascinating stuff!
Take care, Malcolm
At 11:56 AM 5/19/04 -0700, you wrote:
Thanks Marshall. That's what I thought but couldn't seem to convince the
fellow. I
knew the colloids could be seen via the Tyndall effect but also knew that
an atom is
too small to reflect any light so I was still at an impasse as far as
whether the
atoms were dissolved or not.
I'm pretty sure he won't be convinced. Oh well.
Trem
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marshall Dudley" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 11:38 AM
Subject: [silver_list] Re: CS>Dissolved ions
> Anything that is mixed with water and does not precipitate out must be
either
dissolved
> or a stable colloid. Colloids can generally be detected by Tyndall
effect, and the
ions
> are not colloid. I think another definition is that colloids can be
removed via
> centrafuge, whereas dissolved substances cannot. Once again, I believe
that the
ions
> meet the definition for being dissolved.
>
> His comment that an atom is an atom has no bearing, we are not talking
about an
atom, but
> an ion. For instance, common salt breaks down into a sodium ion and a
chlorine ion
when
> it is dissolved in water.
>
> Marshall
>
> Trem wrote:
>
> > Hi List,
> >
> > Something has been bothering me for some time and recently I got into
a friendly
> > discussion regarding ions and colloids. I said the silver ions were
dissolved in
the
> > water. He said that was not true....an ion was an atom missing an
electron in
the
> > outer ring or one with an additional electron in the ring. He went
on to state
that
> > the atom was still an atom and was not dissloved but just in intimate
contact
with
> > and intimitely surrounded by the water. He stated that the atom does not
dissolve by
> > being in the water.
> >
> > I tried to look it up but am not a chemist or physiscist so this is
way over my
head.
> > I did see a couple of sites that showed an artist rendition of an
atom surrounded
by
> > water but not dissolved even though by definition it was called
"dissolved".
> >
> > I saw many CS sites that say the ions are dissolved but I suspect
many of them
are
> > just spouting what they saw on another CS site so I would like a
definitive
simple
> > explanation if anyone can give it.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Trem
> >
> > --
> > The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
> >
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> >
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>
>
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