Morning David,
This is what ODE said.......
---------------------
Strangely, the voltage levels off at around 4vdc and conductivity keeps
rising at a more or less linear rate while current stays rock steady.
According to ohms law, that ain't possible. I'm trying to figure out
what's going on.
---------------------
That statement is easy to understand.
I said a bunch of stuff trying to explain what he said, as I
understand his statement.
Next you said this to explain why this is happening.
-----------------
At that point the transistors are saturated and cannot change any further.
You found the lower limit of that particular transistor.
-----------------
This is totally unrelated to his statement that violates ohms law.
Next, I made this statement.....
If ...... it cannot change any further, please explain how the current
remains "Rock Steady" while the
conductivity is increasing for the rest of the cycle.
I thought this to be easy to understand.
The issue is Voltage Steady Current Steady
Two circuit parameters STEADY, while the conductivity is changing.
Impossible, Violates Ohms Law.
Then you said......
At 11:00 PM 6/27/04, you wrote:
That is because when the transistors reach saturation the load that is
driving the equation is no longer the resistance of the water but it is
the load which the p-n junction at saturation represents that drives the
equation. Since silver ions are still entering the water the resistance of
the water continues to lower (the reciprocal of conductance) however since
the transistors are at their limit the only load felt is the resistance
across the p-n junction which will remain constant since this is the limit
of the transistor and so the voltage stays the same. I imagine the
transistors get pretty hot if left at that point for very long.
In response to.......
What I said.....
At 09:14 PM 6/27/04, you wrote:
Frankly, I don't see how the current could remain constant, and the
volts remain constant, while the conductivity is changing.
You are talking about how the circuit works, not circuit quantities
of Volts, Current, and Resistance.
Actually, Conductance is not even one of the parameters used in the typical
calculation.
If what you are saying is true, as an explanation to Odes
observations, then a bunch of scientist have to have a conference and
change some laws. ( now I know how and why lawyers and judges mess things up )
You can build all the fancy circuits you want, a dozen constant current
circuits, a dozen regulators, a dozen IC's, and on and on and on. String
them all out in one circuit, in series arrangement, power up the critter,
make a batch of CS, and possibly see what Ode is seeing.
Depending entirely what you are using to LOOK at the circuit,
you will not loose a single electron in the current flow path.
The 4 Volts, and a "ROCK STEADY" current cannot exist with a load that
is changing in either resistance or conductivity. ( or both as the case
actually is )
Ode did not think it to be possible because it violates Ohms Law.
By the way, have you ever solved the Cube Circuit?
Draw a cube
The line segments total 12.
Redraw and replace each line segment with a resistor, all the same value
Input is upper left, output is lower right
Solve for equivalent resistance. Redraw a few equivalent circuits what
doing it.
I realize this had little to do with the price of tea in China and little
to do with Odes Query. But it has about as much to do with it as the
internal workings of integrated circuits, transistors, regulators, ect.
For the benefit of the uninitiated who might have the courage to read this
confusion,
Georg Simon Ohm first figured this out in 1827. His theory was not
accepted then, and it appears we don't want to accept it today. He was
forced to resign his job as a teacher and lived in poverty and shame for
laying the groundwork of every electrical calculation. Later his efforts
were recognized when he was became a professor at the University of Munich.
I mentally pat him on the back every time I use OHMS law because of the
simplicity of the ratio of the circuit parameters.
How can one get any simpler than 1 to 1 to 1 ratio?
1 Volt
1 Ohm
1 Amp
One Volt applied to one ohm produces 1 amp of current. When teaching ohms
law, I use this example and several variations of it before getting into
circuits where pencil or calculator are required.
Now... it amazes me that we are having trouble with this near 200 year
old ONE, ONE, ONE calculation.
In my everyday work, I can do most practical calculations mentally. Talk
about mental math, at IBM I had an instructor that could extract square
roots mentally. That was very impressive to watch.
I sure wish he was alive today and a member of this list. Maybe he could
clear up our confusion.
Wayne
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