[email protected] wrote:
In a message dated 1/31/2007 2:12:30 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> The data we have is that:
What is the source of your data? How do you know it is reliable? How do
you know it is complete? There is a large body of medical literature
going back to the early 1900s on argyria. Have you reviewed it?
The data source is every single article ever written on silver that any
of us have found, as well as the experiences of the people here and
their friends and relatives. When you have had dozens if not hundreds
of people who have searched for this information for almost a decade,
and have provided what they have found in this forum, the search should
be pretty complete. Not only have I reviewed all the data I can find on
it, so have dozens of other here, so yes, we have reviewed it.
> 1. silver compounds can cause agryia
> 2. MSP (mild silver protein) can cause it
> 3. CS made incorrectly using tap, spring, or salted distilled water
> can cause it.
Please notice what 1, 2 & 3 have in common. They all contain silver.
Since argyria is the accumulation of silver particles in this skin, how
could anything that did NOT contain silver cause it. What's the point?
> 4. Properly made CS has not been found to cause it in anyone that we
> have ever been able to find.
What do you mean by "properly made CS"?
I think everyone in this group agrees on what that means. Everyone has
been in agreement for years on it. Made with low current, distilled
water, and is clear or light yellow.
Do you have toxicology studies
done on humans showing that it does not cause argyria?
No, all we have is the experience that millions of people have been
taking it, some very large amounts for up to a decade now, and there
have been no reported cases of it ever happening to anyone. 0 cases out
of probably over10 million person years of taking it is pretty definitive.
Do you conclude
that because you have not found anyone who has gotten argyria from
"properly made CS" that no one can get argyria from it?
That in conjunction with the theory and supporting evidence that CS
prevents argyria, yes, I think that is a logical conclusion. It is not
that only I have not found anyone, neither has anyone on this list, and
many of us have been looking for years, and even better yet, the medical
mafia and FDA who would LOVE to be able to cite an example but have come
up empty handed as well. In every case where they try to say that EIS
caused argyria when researched it is found that it is a paper tiger and
in fact silver compounds or MSP was the culprit.
Do you conclude
that because you have not found anyone who has gotten argyria from
"properly made CS" that there is no one out there who has?
Not just me as said above. No one has ever found anyone from this list,
we have over 100 members who have been searching the internet, ,
libraries achieves and so forth., many for a decade now As you should
know it is impossible to prove a negative, but without one single
positive, a negative can be assumed.
> However large doses of EIS can cause deposits which can make
> fingernail and toenail moons blue/gray.
Dermatologists call that argyria. There are several such cases reported
in the medical literature.
That is why I mentioned it. The mechanism is different than that which
forms in the skin. The mechanism for it forming in the skin does not
happen with EIS, but the mechanism that causes it to form in fingernail
moons can. The fingernail moon nails is not a photoreduction method,
but rather a protein entrainment method that occurs as they grow.
Completely different methods, protein entrainment can entrain colloidal
particles, photoreduction cannot reduce them, they are already in the
reduced state (You mnght want to brush up on physics and photochemistry
if you do not understand this).
Check PubMed.
http://homepages.together.net/~rjstan/rose6.html#2
Some people only have their nail beds discolored by silver. Others have
their faces and their nail beds discolored. Others have only their
faces discolored. Others their entire bodies. Most stop taking silver
when they become discolored which results in no additional areas of
skin being discolored.
He gives numerous examples of argyria being caused by silver, in every
case his example is a silver compound, not a colloid. One place he says
that "He consumed sugar tablets coated with silver as a way to stop
smoking" but that it wrong. These tablets are silver citrate, not silver
metal, once again a silver compound. We all know that argyria can be
caused by silver compounds, what's the point?
There is one thing and only one thing that causes argyria. It is
silver.
No you are being simplistic. The process is rather involved involving
photo reduction of silver salts (Colloidal silver is already reduced and
thus cannot be reduced further), the plating out of silver salts on see
atoms of silver (once again colloidal cannot plate out, it is not a salt
to begin with). Silver alone will not cause argyria. The sun or other
light source it required for the skin version for initial photoreduction
of silver SALTS, then silver SALTS are required for grain enlargement.
Silver in any form including metallic can cause argyria.
Metallic silver can cause argyria when converted to a silver salt. Once
again we are back to silver salts. An example is that if you breath in
silver dust, the body will produce H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) which then
will cause the silver to become a combination of silver oxide and silver
hydroxide. These silver salts are then easily absorbed into the blood
stream, and once there, will photoreduce in the skin and grow in the
skin causing argyria. We are NOT talking about silver metal in the
lungs, or silver compounds, both are known to cause argyria by know
methods. It is colloidal silver that will not cause argyria, and is
actually a prophylactic against argyria. If you think it can cause
argyria, then what is the mechanism? Not only are there no examples of
this happening, there is no theory on how it can happen either. The
theory on how it happens with silver salts is straightforward, simple
and proven.
http://homepages.together.net/~rjstan/MetallicSilver.html
The only people who distinguish between "safe" silver and the kind that
causes argyria are the people who sell it.
No, they may make those claims, but anyone who has researched exactly
how argyria is formed, and taking the time to look at the chemistry and
physics involved, and who has researched it will conclude that colloidal
form of silver does not cause argyria, but actually will help prevent
it. The mechanism is very simple. Many of these people are in this
group, and very few sell it.
When they first started
selling "home generators", many companies included recipes that called
for adding salt. When people taking the stuff turned gray, they
suddenly decided that salt was bad and that it is not used in "properly
prepared CS".
I have no idea who THEY is. Adding salt does not produce colloidal
silver. Never did, never will, it produces silver chloride, which can
and will cause argyria. So I am not sure what the point is here. I have
already stated that silver compounds cause argyria, and you appear to be
supplying confirming evidence, yet making it sound like it is not. What
others who may not have researched it sufficiently may or may not have
thought some time ago is irrelevant.
They were wrong. The mistake the people made was adding
silver, not salt.
Are you saying that salt water will kill pathogens? I don't think there
is any evidence of that.
The scientific community has reviewed the large body
of evidence on silver and argyria and knows that ingesting silver in
any form is at best useless and at worst harmful. It can discolor you.
Check these.
http://www.tga.health.gov.au/docs/html/csilver.htm
They do not mention argyria, and on one place claim it does not kill
pathogens, then immediately follow it with that pathogens will become
resistant to it.Their objective is obvious.
http://www.fda.gov/oc/nutritioninitiative/report.html
They claim it can cause argyria, but provide absolutely no cites, nor
even one example of it ever happening. This is nothing but guilt by
association.
http://www.drweil.com/u/QA/QA3690/
This site does not exist.
http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/index.htm
Once again, they claim it can cause it. But saying so does not make it
so. Once again they do not provide any cites, citations, or even one
example of it ever happening to anyone. Nor do they even provide a
theory as to how it could happen, since the standard theory of how
argyria in the skin is obviously impossible with colloidal silver
instead of silver compounds.
http://www.fda.gov/cvm/CVM_Updates/silver.html
http://homepages.together.net/~rjstan/finalrule.html
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/
col_0289.shtml
Do you have any reliable sources of information. We know these pharm
supported organizations will do anything they can to suppress the truth,
using their sites as support of a position is not very insupportable
Looking at these sites there is lots of other inaccurate information and
contradictions in them as well..
In case you are not in the US, the FDA (Food & Drug Administration) is
the US agency that regulates drugs.
That is what they are suppose to be. But in essence they are the drug
companies pawn, and have been for decades. They primary mission is to
squash anything that might interfere with drug company profits, and
pretend what they do is for the public good. Almost everyone on this
list is aware of this and sees through their lies and fabrications.
The TGA is the Australian
equivalent.
Same mold. Instead of providing pages that reiterate the same lies that
are set forth by the medical mafia and their cohorts, how about giving
one, just one citiation, or example of one single person who got argyria
from CS (and I don't mean a silver compound that they are calling CS).
You won't be able to do it because it is physically impossible. Just
like you can't take a picture with already developed film, you cannot
get silver to develop in the skin if it is already "developed".
Developed for both means in a colloidal form. If you don't believe it,
try leaving a photo in the sun that has already been developed. The
silver salts have been washed away, and all that remains is the silver
colloid. Give it a few years if you want to, if it does anything, it
will fade, not grow darker. Same process, same results.
Marshall
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