-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Rosenberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


   a. extensive technical review, comments and feedbacks, including 
commentary from implementors (including one in my own company, and 
several others from outside of it) and deployers (Tim Moore from Microsoft)

FM: While I applaud the time and effort that the large vendors have
obviously invested in this, this is a qualitative statement.  Perhaps Cisco
and/or Microsoft have empirical data they would be willing to share about
robustness and performance?  I don't think anyone here, including myself, is
saying that ICE should not go forward or be used (its ability to handle
hairpinning is of great interest for example), we are asking for evidence
that we're not going to have another 3489 experience if we can avoid it.

   e. multiple open source implementations (two have been pointed out 
already)

FM: I think I missed those, can they be repeated?  The only one I'm aware of
is pjnath and its first release was a little over two months ago and its
based on -15.


Thanks,
FM




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