Jumping in this one before finishing my email, so pardon anynthing I missed by answering too fast:
You're right that standard controls can be simpler for us and maybe faster sometimes, but realistically, we will not get to influence most applications so extensively as to dictate what controls they use. Like it or not, a lot of programmers like to create their own fancy control sets, and so do a lot of development environments. Someone else suggested in this thread that blind-specific versions of software aren't such a good idea. I often agree. There are times when compromises have to be made though, such as making one version with special configuration options, like Spybot gave us for instance. In general though, I consider splitting software development into two paths, one for us and one for them, as a last resort, simply because it tends to cause maintenance problems. On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 02:44:10PM +0100, Gordan Radic wrote: Yeah, but, like it or not, when you have simple user interface your program runs faster and more stable, especially when you're using it with screen reader. Also, I'm not talking about "just4blind" interfaces here. NOD's non-GUI looks just fine when you're looking at it, just like any other window in Windows Classic Theme and believe it or not, there's a huge bunch of sighted people using Windows in that mannor. Graphical interfaces slows down the machine you're working on, and there are not many people who can afford a new processor and MB every six months. S postovanjem Gordan Radic ______________________ MSN: zarakijel at gmail.com http://zarakijel.4shared.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Toews" <[email protected]> To: "a list for discussing skype and its use with screen access software." <skypeenglish at emissives.com> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [Skypeenglish] Appeal for info on other screen readers >I tend to shy away from the idea of specialized just-for-the-blind >interfaces. I would much rather the Skype people worked on making the >existing interface accessible. It's all for the same reason that I do not >like the special versions of Web pages. > >Bruce > >-- >Bruce Toews >Proud JAWS User >Skype ID: o.canada >E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: bruce at ogts.net >LiveJournal: http://masterofmusings.livejournal.com >Web Site (including info on my weekly commentaries): http://www.ogts.net >Info on the Best TV Show of All Time: http://www.cornergas.com > >On Sat, 22 Nov 2008, Gordan Radic wrote: > >>Hi! >>I'm no expert in this but I believe that lot of things in Skype would be >>much more accessible if the Skype developers include non graphical user >>interface like developers of NOD32 are doing. There will be non graphical >>interface in NOD 4 (again). When you have, let's call it, classic windows >>with simple or none graphic objects it's easier to inplement >>accessibility in it. Skype developers could include a choice during >>installation or in Options when you can choose prefered interface. This >>"no skin" things work just fine with many programs in interraction with >>screen readers even when there are no scripts available. >> >> >>S postovanjem >> >>Gordan Radic >>______________________ >>MSN: zarakijel at gmail.com >>http://zarakijel.4shared.com >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl at dlee.org> >>To: "a list for discussing skype and its use with screen access >>software." <skypeenglish at emissives.com>; <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>; >><nfbcs at nfbnet.org> >>Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:51 AM >>Subject: [Skypeenglish] Appeal for info on other screen readers >> >> >>> Warning to SkypeEnglish: This is a pretty technical message. Author >>> not responsible for eye glazing. <silly grin> >>> >>> For various reasons, including some ideas brewed during this week's >>> visit I made to Skype headquarters in Tallinn, I have a few >>> questions for users of screen readers other than JAWS (I think I know >>> JAWS well enough to answer these questions for that one :-) ). >>> >>> Screen readers of interest: Window-Eyes, SAToGo, Hal, NVDA, and any >>> others currently in use for Windows. >>> >>> Questions: >>> >>> 1. Can the reader be made to present a virtual view of a window that >>> supports MSAA, and if so, are there special requirements for any MSAA >>> roles? For example, what makes something get called a "link" if not >>> just the role of Role_System_Link? >>> >>> 2. What are the requirements for making an HTML control appear in a >>> virtual view. For example, JAWS can handle IE HTML controls, and I >>> assume any other HTML control that (1) answers >>> WM_GetObject/ObjID_NativeOM with a standards-compliant Document Object >>> Model (DOM) root node, and possibly (2) provides reasonable MSAA >>> information. >>> >>> 3. Same question for RichEdit-style controls: Can they be >>> virtualized and, if so, any special needs or restrictions? I'm >>> particularly interested here in support for subobjects such as >>> buttons. (I know RichEdits can have embedded objects, but I don't yet >>> know what kinds.) >>> >>> Users of Skype 4 Beta will undoubtedly have noticed that Skype 4 >>> currently boasts some rather unusual "list items" in conversations >>> (formerly called "chats"), such as file transfers with Save and Cancel >>> buttons, voicemails with Play buttons, etc. I am trying to determine >>> what to recommend as a way to grant us full access to these structures >>> without a lot of work, for them or for us. >>> >>> But this set of questions is also aimed at providing a general idea of >>> what is now possible from our side. JAWS allows me to tell it to >>> virtualize windows of a certain class, though there are restrictions >>> on how well that can work depending on what MSAA the window offers. >>> JAWS can also virtualize HTML and RichEdit windows. I'm looking for a >>> solution that isn't based on just one screen reader though. >>> >>> Thanks for any info. >>> >>> -- >>> Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org >>>http://www.dlee.org >>> SSB BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com >>> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com >>> "All these years, the people said, 'He's acting like a kid.' >>> He did not know he could not fly, so he did." >>> --Guy Clark, "The Cape" (Dublin Blues) >>> >>> Thanks for posting to the skype english list. To access scripts for >>>the >>> latest version of skype go to >>> http://www.dlee.org/skype >>> To access tutorials and other goodies go to >>> http://www.marrie.org/skype/skype.html >>> thanks and have a wonderful day. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Skypeenglish mailing list >>> Skypeenglish at emissives.com >>> http://emissives.com/mailman/listinfo/skypeenglish_emissives.com >> >> >>Thanks for posting to the skype english list. To access scripts for the >>latest version of skype go to >>http://www.dlee.org/skype >>To access tutorials and other goodies go to >>http://www.marrie.org/skype/skype.html >>thanks and have a wonderful day. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Skypeenglish mailing list >>Skypeenglish at emissives.com >>http://emissives.com/mailman/listinfo/skypeenglish_emissives.com >> > >Thanks for posting to the skype english list. To access scripts for the >latest version of skype go to >http://www.dlee.org/skype >To access tutorials and other goodies go to >http://www.marrie.org/skype/skype.html >thanks and have a wonderful day. > > >_______________________________________________ >Skypeenglish mailing list >Skypeenglish at emissives.com >http://emissives.com/mailman/listinfo/skypeenglish_emissives.com Thanks for posting to the skype english list. To access scripts for the latest version of skype go to http://www.dlee.org/skype To access tutorials and other goodies go to http://www.marrie.org/skype/skype.html thanks and have a wonderful day. _______________________________________________ Skypeenglish mailing list Skypeenglish at emissives.com http://emissives.com/mailman/listinfo/skypeenglish_emissives.com -- Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org http://www.dlee.org SSB BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com http://www.ssbbartgroup.com "Determine that the thing can and shall be done, and then...find the way." - Abraham Lincoln
