On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Geoffrey Robertson wrote:
> > How about a completely left field suggestion? Try "Blue", which you'll find
> > on Freshmeat. It was the first semester objec-oriented language taught at
> > Sydney Uni for quite some time. It's kinda Pascally-Haskelly-Javarey-C.
> >
> I'll definately have a look at it. Waht do universities start with now?
> Java I'd be guessing.
I've just finished CS at UNSW, and they teach Java, period. There's a
tiny smattering of other stuff in a few courses, notably a course that
gives a very basic grounding in c, perl and bourne shell, and operating
systems courses that demand students teach themselves c. But essentially
the only language that's really taught in any depth is Java, which most
courses require. Haskell is used as an introduction to programming, I
think based on the idea that the most dependable proficiency of students
is maths and that a functional language is more easily parsed by someone
who knows some maths.
I have brothers doing CS at USyd and Wollongong, and I would encourage
you to take a pass on teaching Blue. I haven't heard any advantages to
teaching it that are even close to the disadvantages of teaching a dead
language. I think you learn programming by doing it and getting advice
and feedback from others who also do it. If you can't talk to a lot of
people (and not just a lecturer and other students) who program in a
language I think you are at a very serious learning disadvantage. If you
can look at a real app you use all the time and read its code, that's
fantastic. I think the "market" is a secondary consideration, the
primary one being that there's lots of code out there in the language
you can look at, that you can see how the language has been applied to
real problems, and can talk with other people with a common frame of
reference.
Wollongong teaches c++ and my main impression is that c++ is too
difficult for a beginners course, because in 9 weeks your time is taken
up with learning the syntax, rather than learning how to use the
language. Personally I don't see any reason why you would move away from
c. If you really want to teach OO, then perhaps you are trying to cram
too much into the course. Maybe then you should drop out the scripting,
and teach procedural programming in c++ for the first 9 weeks and then
extend it to the OO side in the second half. Personally I still think
that's quite a lot unless you have bright, dedicated students. The other
possibility is to teach Java. I think it was a disaster as a foundation
for a whole CS course at UNSW, but it was a good subject for learning
the fundamentals of programming. I worked for the last two years of my
course as a Java tutor for the Uni, and the Java was great for the
students who really wanted to learn.
cheers,
Martin
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