I have
used some of the Tranzeo CPE, www.tranzeo.com they have one that is TR-CPE
and is 199.00 if you order 12 or more, it is 225.00 if you order 1-11.
They work really well, no problems at all. You may find someone who has
had a problem, but I would bet it is MUCH LESS than the
airbridges.
Scott
Scott, Mike,
I just joined this list
because of difficulties with the airPoint Pro Outdoor units. It seems
everyone is having similar issues, i.e. unreasonably slow speeds, not
associating, etc.
Has anyone yet had a success with these
products? If not, has anyone switched to a different manufacturer?
If so, which products work?
Thanks and good luck!
Sevak
On
Mon, 2003-07-21 at 15:06, Scott Damron wrote:
You are correct, I stand
corrected. I just don't see how they can claim "Carrier Grade" even if
it is just a small blurb on their opening page of the website. I have
to say, if they can get their stuff together, and produce some reliable
stuff, they could really clean up!
Scott
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bobby
Bounds
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 12:02 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Thanks for
your support and the patience
Scott......I disagree with
your rant about SB products where you say they "don't
work worth a shit for residential even". The more
correct rant would be, "units from certain batches and
especially the outdoor models don't work worth a shit for residential
even". As for us, we've had SB indoor units
working continuously for almost a year now w/o incident. SB's biggest
problems it seems to me, are:
1. Poor quality control
- Seems that more than once they've shipped bad batches of units. So, one
guy (like me) will say the indoor units are great, while another guy has
25 bad ones sitting in a box next to his bench.
2. 1st
year engineering mistakes - Seems like (I'm guessing here) their
engineers, while getting some things right (receiver sensitivity), totally
miss other obvious, yet important design points (particularly with the
outdoor units, e.g. how the coax and ethernet connects,
no integrated ethernet grounding solution, no sun reflector, as
just a few examples). IMHO, they should swallow their pride and put their
radios in a NEMA box and stick a SB sticker on the
outside.
3. "Featureitis" - In any specialized human endeavor
you have the "basics" and then you have the "extras". Extras are good but
not at the expense of the basics. The basics of microwave radio
transceivers used in a WISP business setting are: 1. Reliability 2.
Usability and 3. Reliability......did I mention reliability? Your 'basics'
list may vary but I think you get my drift.
So SB has really missed
the mark on their outdoor product line, big time. The situation is too
complex however to just call everything 'shit'.
SB's responses in this forum and elsewhere don't give me
confidence that anything will change soon. They are now caught up in
'damage control'. What would give me confidence you say? How about news
they've fired their Director of Production and Director of Engineering (on
the outdoor units) and replaced them with 25 year veterans from the
Motorola commercial cellular division? That would be a good start. Then
they announce they have placed two of their engineers on permanent
assignment with two of their biggest WISP customers. Their entire job
would be to work in the field side by side with the WISP guys and report
back to the new Director of Engineering and Director of Production as
to problems and opportunities with SB products.
The next
thing they do is send free spares and replacements (replacements they're
doing) to all their customers. So, for example we've had about a 50%
failure rate on outdoor units (that's 12 units for us). So, we have a
total of twenty four outdoor units. For us they would replace the bad
units with the RMA process (which they've done for the most part) but then
they'd send us 12 more for spares because it is clear they have not
resolved the many problems with the units and we can reasonably expect
further failures. The flaws are built into the units. Firmware fixes are
just part of the problem. For you bigger operators they may have to send
you, say a hundred or two hundred radios. So, big deal, they're mass
produced. It's a one-time write-off for them. Outrageous you say? Too
costly for them, you say? Consider that our (SB's customers)
financial losses due to the defective outdoor products has run into the
thousands and tens of thousands when you consider extra labor and loss of
goodwill. A class action lawsuit is not such a far-fetched idea at this
point and may be necessary to get the attention of SB management. So, SB
doesn't it just make more sense to load us up with replacements? You'd
have customers for life.....for life.....I guarantee it.
And
finally they need to hurry up and ship their new outdoor line (Nexus?). .
. . and they better not have the same design flaws and low reliability as
their current line or they are history.
Bobby Bounds
Airwave
Internet, LLC
ABQ, NM
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Damron
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 10:46 AM
Subject:
RE: [smartBridges] Thanks for your support and the
patience
I know this has been said already,
but according to Smart Bridge, their equipment is "Carrier Grade"
That is a rather heafty claim, as they don't work worth a shit for
residential even. Most folks I know who are WIPS's will purchase a
couple of pieces of equipment and test them. I would not put an
Airbridge of anykind on a business customer!!!!!
Scott
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Ray
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 9:26 AM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [smartBridges] Thanks
for your support and the patience
Brian, I'll buy your
airbridges at a substantial discount since they don't
work.
Regarding the business clients you lost, that
sucks big time! But, you really should have looked at using
different equipment to keep them on. If you are charging them
$300 per month for a connection they should get something more than
your residential customers (i.e. more reliable equipment). Most
businesses we deal with can and will pay a premium for higher quality
service, we would provide them with Trango gear, although this is more
due to the spectrum than anything.
At some point *WE*
must take responsibility for loosing customers. You know, "shaft
me once, shame on you, shaft me twice, shame on me."
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian
Winters
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 9:13 AM
Subject:
RE: [smartBridges] Thanks for your support and the
patience
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July 20,
2003
I can appreciate the fact that SmartBridges is
frustrated. I can also appreciate the fact that they are
working hard to resolve the problem and that it blindsided
them or what have you. However, this is a serious problem
that I personally have been dealing with for well over a
month. (Check the very first post on the subject when Mike
and I posted the problems about the indoor bridges) The
fact of the matter is, whether its their fault or not,
this “situation” has seriously impacted our business and
lost us thousands of dollars. Today I am prepping for a
climb that will be the 4th such climb on this tower to
replace yet another defective Airpoint Pro. My tower
climber charges me an EXCELLENT rate of $1 per foot but
this unit is at the top of a 250ft tower so you do the
math. Aside from that we have now lost 2 very important
business customers whose monthly billing was about $600
between the two of them. Add up $600/mo and multiply by 36
months and see what that number is.
More
importantly however, we have lost credibility with our
customers because we have been unable to fix the problem.
Our service is seen as un-reliable and our reputation has
been very negatively affected. And all of this through no
fault of our own. To make matters worse, we now have 25
bridges in stock that we are afraid to deploy because we
can’t even get a MAC address list of the affected
products. I can understand how this situation sucks for
all involved, but the fact of the matter is, when we
purchase a product from a manufacturer and it doesn’t
work, it doesn’t matter whose fault it is. The sticker on
the side of my radios says SmartBridges and therefore it’s
their problem. I can’t believe how everyone is saying that
is great they are trying so hard to fix the problem, Its
not great, it’s a problem that never should have happened
in the first place. The way I see it, defective chip or
not, there should be a level of QC in place that doesn’t
allow 4,000 bad units out the door…Period. Aside from
that, this new “fix” seems more like a crapshoot than a
solution and given my luck, I probably won’t get a single
unit to work with the new firmware.
I have been one of
the main supporters of SmartBridges products (my picture
is even on the front page of their website) but this
leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If you take the money I
have spent fixing this problem and add to it the lost
business and reputation issues, I could have deployed
Alvarion and actually saved money. (How many units could I
lease for $600/mo that I lost with my two business
customers?) Plus, I would be sitting at home with my
family right now instead of posting in utter frustration
on a support forum at Noon on a Sunday. My phone rings
every 25 minutes and I haven’t slept in weeks, so I don’t
really care whose fault it is or how hard they are working
on a solution, this situation is going to be very hard to
recover from.
-Brian
P.S. I have 25
airbridges for sale if anybody wants them.
Best regards,
![]()
Brian W
Winters
President/CEO
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(502)
863-1709 Tel
(502)
863-1841 Fax
www.mybfe.com
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Broadband
For Everyone
138 East Main St
Georgetown, KY 40324
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-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nish
Park
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 3:43 AM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [smartBridges] Thanks
for your support and the patience
Thanks guys for the support and the kind words. I will pass
it on to the team. I am sure they will appreciate it.
Yes it
is kind of frustrating. Right now all the energy (yours and ours)
is all going on non-value-add stuff. And that too it happened
right in the midst of some good QA improvement tools we had put in
place. It is all overshadowed for the moment. I guess we will have
to first plough through this mess before the other improvement
stuff becomes more visible to you.
We were kind of
broadsided with this issue. We keep asking ourselves if somehow we
could have prevented it. And we can not think of a way. It’s kind
of one of those things where all the “correct” things have come
together in a certain way to have an “incorrect” product.
Fortunately it is a well contained problem affecting small
numbers.
The issue has been identified. Solution has already
been put in place in the factory. So from that perspective this is
a closed issue.
Now the challenge is to work with all of you
to figure out the least painful solution for the products out in
the field. We believe the Firmware upgrade will provide that
solution. I think we are very close. The root issue of “lost
association after some time” is CONFIRMED to be solved with the
new Firmware. Currently it seems to be working for 60% to 70% of
the users. So it releases a lot of pressure with this issue.
Some users are reporting their devices are not able to
associate at all after the firmware upgrade. We are investigating
the issue and trying to replicate. It looks like some minor thing
that we must be overlooking. So hopefully soon we will have that
nailed down also.
Again thanks for your support and the
patience to put up with all these difficulties. We look forward to
re-engage with all of you in high gears.
Nish
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Ray
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:12
PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: Re:
[smartBridges] New Firmware not working for me
I too am very
impressed with all the staff at SB! They are dedicated,
honest, hardworking, and I trust them. I can only imagine
that they are as frustrated as us with these
issues.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From:
The
Wirefree Network
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 8:19
PM
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] New Firmware not working
for me
Ya….Chris…I
agree. However, I have been a beta tester for them since Dec
02…not just a regular client. I have been providing very
detailed reports and I am used to receiving some word??
That’s
what has me worried at the moment. I can see it now…a bunch
of over-worked technicians banging their heads on their
desks.
I have not mass-deployed….dont want to either. I
only have 3 bad units and all of them are up at the moment (knock
on wood).
I wonder if doing a manual upgrade, downgrade,
upgrade, and downgrade knocked some sense into the unit.
Cause it’s been working fine ever since yesterday. Not the
first time that it has worked for 24 hours though. I am
holding my breath. I really don’t want to lose these 3
clients.
And I am not ever going to jump on the “lawsuit”
bandwagon either. I am EXTREMELY impressed with the sB
team….from Dilish, to Naveen, to Nish, to Alex, to Seeni,
etc…etc….. I believe they must have some serious “insider”
ownership going on. Cause they are some DAMN hard
workers.
Sully
P.S. I am having a problem with logging
into some units at the moment though??? Has me
stumped. I will address that in another
post.
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
phantam
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 7:05
PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE:
[smartBridges] New Firmware not working for me
Sully
there working on checking the problem I believe I saw, remember
it's a beta so it is going to be bug ridden hence why they said
not to mass deploy it.
I take it they had a
feeling problems like this were going to arise that's probably why
it was released as a beta with all the warnings because it was a
rush beta to get the kinks out in the field because really in
design testing can only show 1/100th of the possible problems that
can occur in software especially firmware for
hardware.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From:
The Wirefree Network [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 10:57 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I see you are
responding to some posts...and I have never known sB to
NOT
monitor this forum 24x7. So...where is your response to
our
problems with this firmware??
Please....we have
been patient on this issue...but at least let us know
that you
acknowledge the problem we are having and are working hard
(as
usual) to fix it.
Loyal sB
user!
Sully
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of The
Wirefree
Network
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 12:35
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] New
Firmware not working for me
Repost due to ZERO
response from sB on this issue.
Why is this firmware
not allowing association to some aPPo's???
Sully
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of The
Wirefree
Network
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 5:15 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [smartBridges] New Firmware
not working for me
Importance: High
Here in
my lab, I have a suspected bad unit. I upgraded the
firmware,
and it will NOT reassociate with the intended
aPPo. I switched the
SSID/Freq to my other aPPo and it
associated right up. I did this about
5 times both
ways. Every time it was the same. I downgraded
the
firmware back to (0.01.04) and it associated right up with
the intended
aPPo. Upgraded again and it lost
association.
I have confirmed that there are ABSOLUTELY no
differences in the
settings of my two aPPos except for
this:
- Different SSIDs
- Different freq's
- One is new
aPPo with short pigtail, one is older aPPo with
hardwired
CAT5
The unit that I
can not associate to is the older unit. None of the
older
sB equipment is having any problems. Everything is on the
older
firmware as well:
aPPo = 1.4j.5
airBridge indoors =
0.01.04 (tried upgrading to 0.01.06)
Of the 17 I installed
in the last 2 weeks, three are experiencing the
"lost
association" problem. I replaced all 3 units (including
POE
units) and all 3 are still having problems. That is
VERY odd. Although
I did receive all these units (30) at
the same time (almost all
consecutive MAC
addresses).
Still doesn't explain why only these 3 are
having problems and none of
the other 14. I wouldn't
think it was too odd if it weren't for the
fact that I
R&R'd all 3 units and they are still losing
association,
whereas all the other 14 new clients are humming
right along.
I really think there is something more
to this.
No...it is not frequency or multipath or
whatever. I have sniffed out
the entire area. They
are clean and very good RSSI/LQ.
All 17 of these
installs are within a half mile of the aPPo and
clear
LOS.
Sully
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of The
Wirefree
Network
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 4:09 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Anyone
having issues with the new firmware?
name of the device is
just airbridge. I dont have any more client info
entered
in any of my devices.
Sully
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of The Wirefree Network
Sent:
Friday, July 18, 2003 4:51 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Anyone
having issues with the new firmware?
1. Older aPPo
(about 3 months old..older type unit with hardwired
CAT5)
running 1.4j.5 firmware.
2. Client airBridge indoor
units are running older firmware as well
0.01.04.
3. SSID is
only 3 characters long
4. Preupgrade RSSI and LQ was in the
90's for both (when associated of
course).
I am
wondering if I need the newer firmware on all devices first of
all,
then load the BETA firmware on the suspect
devices????
I had held off on the last round of firmware
upgrades due to others
experiencing problems. I am about
to try another upgrade here in my lab
with one bad unit.
Will keep you posted!
Sully
-----Original Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tom Haynes
Sent: Friday,
July 18, 2003 4:37 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
RE: [smartBridges] Anyone having issues with the new
firmware?
Mike and Sully.
What FW are you running on the AP that the
upgraded
units
will not associate with? What was your
pre-upgrade RSSI and LQ? What is
the
length of the ESSID on
the AP that the units will not associate with?
Mike,
are there anyother differences between the APs that the
upgraded
units
will assoiate with and the APs they will not
associate with?
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of The Wirefree
Network
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 6:31 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Anyone
having issues with the new firmware?
I tried to
upgrade one of 3 freezing units and it would not
associate
with
the AP. This is the only AP within
range of all 3 units, so I dont know
what to do at this
point.
I had to downgrade back to old firmware to
reassociate.
Sully
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Saathoff
Sent:
Friday, July 18, 2003 12:29 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Anyone
having issues with the new firmware?
Update,
I have
7 AP's running the same firmware. For some reason upgrading
the
firmware on the AirBriges kills their ability to associate
with two of
seven
AP's. I can associate with any of
the other five and all seems to be
working
well.
Not sure why yet.
--Mike
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Michael Saathoff
Sent:
Friday, July 18, 2003 12:20 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [smartBridges] Anyone
having issues with the new firmware?
Sam,
It either
works or it dosen't.....Sounds funny but, what I mean is
that
the
upgrade seems to resolve the heat issue.
Though I haven't had any real
heat
the last couple
days. The bad side is that it seems to kill my
ability
to
associate with some of my AP's.
--Mike
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sam
Sent: Friday, July 18,
2003 12:09 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
[smartBridges] Anyone having issues with the new
firmware?
Has anyone
installed the new firmware? I'm getting ready to try,
but
wanted
to check first to see what sort of luck others
have had.
Thanks
Sam
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