Ray is essentially correct. I do not remember the western club part. I did incorporate the concept from Ray Hayes original idea with some modification. It is a good program no matter who takes credit and I sure don't mean this to be that I do.
Cal Posthuma former LSF President GVRC Newsletter editor GVRC Soaring Field Vice-President Michigan Soaring League Secretary GVRC LSF Coordinator AMA LSFV LSF 2997 Amateur Radio Operator KA8CLD AMA Leader Member and Contest Director AMA District 7 Web Page: www.ALTELCO.NET/~calplsf/index.html Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 616-997-1905 Cell: 616-240-3972 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Hayes. Web Site http://www.skybench.com"; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jack Iafret" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Calvin Posthuma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Jack Strother" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 7:37 AM Subject: Re: Your LSF Claim.... > Jack, > > I'm glad you don't mind if I take credit for creating sticks that make fire > (hmmmm), but, I think your the only person that would say that. It sounds a > little silly coming from a LSF President, but maybe you think you have > license to try and put people down. > > The program I created was called R/C Sailplane Club Program and I have a > copy of the written program that was fist introduced to the Greater Detroit > Soaring and Hiking Society in 1997 and was embraced by Jack Iafret in the > club's contests and newsletter. Memory tells me that Cal Posthuma, who > likely was the LSF President at the time introduced it to LSF with some > modification to it by a club in a western state that I can't recall the name > of. I would appreciate it if Cal would clarify this for me and the readers > of RCSE. > > Ray > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jack Strother" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Ray Hayes. Web Site http://www.skybench.com"; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 7:13 AM > Subject: Your LSF Claim.... > > > > > > Dear Ray, > > I do not mind that you Have to take Credit for creating the sticks that > > make fire. > > However, Your claim to Have created the LSF Club Co Ordinator Program as > > you indicate below > > is totally BOGUS. > > I have been an active LSF Member since 1976, and have never heard of your > > claim. > > The Program DID not exits as an Official, (Documented) LSF Program, until > I > > became Vice President of the LSF several years ago. > > I created the program, as well as work with people across the United > States > > to energize the LSF Program, with Hand to hand contact, > > without trying to sell them something.. This was put in place as opposed > to > > trying to recreate the Regional Soaring Contest in the NSS version, > > due to the Housekeeping headache. Which by the way seems to have worked. > > The Closest thing that the LSF had was the Country Coordinator Program, > > that is Documented, and was spearheaded by John Vennerholm. > > Granted you were a pioneer, as many of the other lesser known, and more > > sedate offerings on this list. > > You can Make any claim you want, but we have the documentation, > > Respectfully > > Jack Strother > > LSF President > > > > > > > > > > > > At 01:09 PM 2/28/2003 -0500, Ray Hayes. Web Site > http://www.skybench.com > > wrote: > > >Lets try this one again....... > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Ray Hayes. Web Site http://www.skybench.com"; > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ronald Sinclair" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 5:28 AM > > >Subject: Re: [RCSE] For those that enjoy building and flying wood built > up > > >sailplanes > > > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > > > Thanks for your comments on line, I have had several positive > responses > > >off > > > > line from the exchange, however, I have had many responses from the > Wood > > > > Crafters mailing list that together have all been very helpful in > > > > formulating a competition for sailplanes restricted to WOOD > construction, > > > > with or without a glass fuse. > > > > > > > > As you know, many of us thought that RES was going to be an entry > level > > > > competition and most thought it would be with Gentle Ladies or similar > > > > designs. Obviously it didn't turn out that way because of human > nature, > > >so > > > > Jim Porter is right about being specific on the intent when writing up > a > > > > proposal to AMA. > > > > > > > > I feel compelled to try and put something in the AMA rule book that > will > > > > help keep a competition class specifically for WOOD construction. > This is > > > > where many of the newcomers enter our great hobby, but are poorly > served > > >by > > > > club contest activities due to the absence of a wood only class event. > > >Any > > > > wood only event in the AMA rule book is not going to change most clubs > > > > activity to include wood only events because the clubs are generally > run > > >by > > > > those that do not embrace wood construction. But, it is a starting > point > > >to > > > > give those that enjoy building and flying wood sailplanes a chance to > > > > mobilize enough support to have their clubs put on a wood only event. > The > > > > most obvious AMA class to help wood enthusiasts would be a RES WOOD > ONLY > > > > class. > > > > > > > > For those of you that think I have a private agenda, your wrong again, > > > > unless you define private agenda as someone willing to try something > new > > > > that will promote the health and well being of our hobby. Is it not > > >obvious > > > > to all that what most clubs are doing (or not doing) is not > successfully > > > > promoting the hobby, certainly not the organized event we commonly > refer > > >to > > > > as a sailplane contest. I have been a very active participant in Cal > > > > Posthuma's Michigan Soaring League for years and have seen it go from > 50 > > > > entrants in the good old days to 15 last year. When it gets down to 5 > or > > >10 > > > > entrants, what do you think will happen ? One of the best Michigan > > > > contest is way up there in Traverse City and they still get a good > turn > > >out > > > > for their events. I have had a long history of doing what I can think > of > > >to > > > > promote the hobby, some of my creations are the LSF Club Co Ordinator > > > > program, the LOFT club in Fort Wayne, IN, a Mini Hi Start event aimed > at > > > > beginners that I ran for three years in Michigan, and more. So if > this > > >kind > > > > of activity is defined as private agenda, one can easily understand > why > > >few > > > > people step out of the box to try something different to promote the > > >hobby. > > > > By the way, the first sailplane contest I put on was November, 1974. > > > > > > > > > > > > So as time permits, I will formulate some proposals aimed at wood only > AMA > > > > classes and will appreciate input from all that are interested. 70 > people > > > > are now signed up for my Wood Crafters event in Muncie, IN and I am > > > > considering holding the event in several locations around the country > per > > > > year. Watch for the red van pulling the white trailer driven by a > white > > > > haired guy with a big smile on his face. It is just a whole lot of > fun. > > > > Also, watch for the announcement of a Wood Crafters Postal event, > maybe > > >it > > > > will become a world wide event. Maybe Jim Porter would like to get in > on > > > > this one since he is in Germany. What would be a good date ??? > > > > I'm thinking one of the three days of Wood Crafters..May 23,24,25. > > > > Participants could have there choice of one of the three days to fly. > > > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: "Ronald Sinclair" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:46 PM > > > > Subject: RE: [RCSE] For those that enjoy building and flying wood > built up > > > > sailplanes > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ray, > > > > > > > > > > I would not be in favor of the new class as stated. I would rather > see > > >it > > > > allowing the whole works, rudder, elevator, aileron, spoilers and > flaps. > > > > That would make some designs legal that presently have no class in > which > > > > they are competitive. (Built-up Legends for example would be > legal--that > > >was > > > > a real builder's kit and has no class in which it can be competitive. > > > > > > > > > > Regarding sailplane classes in general I would like to see us copy > the > > > > controline precision aerobatic format. By date they have Old Time > Stunt, > > > > Classic Stunt, and AMA/Pampa (modern) Precision Aerobatics. > > > > > > > > > > We could have; Antique, (the Society of Antique Modelers fly > this--and > > > > some great sailplanes many of us have never seen. Nostalgia, (which we > now > > > > have). Classic (which could be a new class covering 1980 to the Falcon > 880 > > > > period. And Modern, which would include our current crop of K$ super > > >ships. > > > > > > > > > > This class format would provide a class for all of our past > sailplanes. > > > > > > > > > > There were many great-flying sailplane in the past and I'd like to > see > > > > them flying again. Note: Jim Thomas flew a Dodgson Windsong to third > place > > > > overall at Visalia this past year. Of all the sailplanes I ever flew > the > > > > Windsong was the best landing plane of them all. > > > > > > > > > > Mike Clancy > > > > > LSF 926 V 92 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" > > >and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note > > >that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format > > >with MIME turned off. > > > > Jack Strother LSF President > > Loveland, OH LSF 2948 > > LSF Level IV > > CSS Silver > > http://www.silentflight.org > > > > > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
