"How did you get into the sport in the first place?" It was by the chance meeting with a pilot that became a dear friend and trainer. I was flying stunt kites and our paths crossed at the field. I liked what I saw. I was convinced that I to could scratch build a reasonably good flying plane for not a lot of money. I joined a winter club-building project Mike was sponsoring. I built my first 100" EPP foam RES trainer for less than $100.00. Frankly if it had been summer and not late fall when we met, I would have seen the investment that most club pilots had in the hobby and ran like he!!. I'm glad I didn't, but it has taken a while to adjust to the costs that most competitive pilots expend. Not that I can't afford it; my SLK is in storage for the winter right now. It's just that I'm not the type to spend large amounts of money on a hobby. I have just as much fun flying my stunt kites.
". I've taught a flight class (small free flight gliders) at the local middle school for several years." Our club sponsors an aviation day and a kite building day each year with the park board. So I know what you mean about not winning the hearts and minds of the kids. That is why I ask the question. While I think kids programs are valuable things to do I don't think it will generate many pilots to support soaring. Maybe LSF and AMA should start a "national soaring come out and test fly day". Get all the clubs to promote a Sunday afternoon when people can come out and have a glider guider experience. The TV stations would most likely eat it up. It would be a day to leave the expensive equipment home and just have inexpensive planes using Hi-Starts for launches. That way the public can see what fun is possible for a small investment. That may be somewhat deceptive, given the state of the soaring hobby, but it would most likely generate more new flyers in one day than we now get in years. Just an idea that will most likely soar off out of range like some planes I have known. Anyway, what we are prorating to contest visitors (potential soaring pilots) at the contests now is not working to draw in new people, so maybe the AMA and LSF should re-think the marketing approach. John -----Original Message----- From: Tom Broeski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:17 AM To: John; RCSE Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Wood Crafters / Builders etc. There are plenty of people who fly both woodies and composites (built and bought). Without guys like Ray and Phil, there would be a very big void in world of RC. There are also some who build, some who design and some who do both. Selig, DP, JW, TK, MD etc. Are greatly responsible for what is being developed. TK scratch built his first designs and the Mantis took off because of Phil and got "pretty" because of Terry Luckenbacker. I believe Doc D, TK, Mike L, Phil, Barry, etc. all participate in the evolution of the Supra. We need all types to make this the great sport it is. No one person is doing this on their own. Oh, and we need the non-builder guys to buy the stuff that people build also. This is for example sake. There are many more I could add to the list, the etc. is for them. And sorry if any of my facts are off or limited. John, I believe AMA does provide Delta Darts and there are a lot of clubs, schools, scouts, etc. that take advantage of this service. I've taught a flight class (small free flight gliders) at the local middle school for several years. Kids have won both regional and state championships. Haven't had a single kid join the sport. Video games seem to be taking over. Why go outside when you can fly on a computer. Competitions tend to drive the high end, but there are a lot of "low end" fliers that are happy to just go out and have fun on the weekends, you don't hear much about them. My question is: "How did you get into the sport in the first place?" I watched the power fliers at Sepulveda Park (LA Calif) in the 50's and didn't get into the sport until the mid 90's in Virginia. Saw my first sailplane contest at Cuckoo VA. There were lots of "exploded" woody planes on launch, several lost in the woods, mid-airs, hard landings, etc. I figured it took a good deal of money to compete in the sport. I saw hand launches for the first time. I went to the closest local club in Waynesboro, VA and they told me they didn't allow sailplanes. I just didn't want the mess and noise of power. I tried to learn to fly on my own with no luck. I found a club in Charlottesville VA and a guy (Millard Scott) who helped me learn to fly. I know I would have given up if he hadn't been there. I don't know if there is anything that AMA or LSF can do. I'm sure they are open to suggestions. T ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "RCSE" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:25 AM Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: Wood Crafters 06 Announcement > After the exchange between Ray and Phil I have been thinking. > > Inquiring minds would like to know! > > How many builder/flyers do we have at the NATS? Aside from my own > curiosity, > I think it would be a good gauge for AMA and LSF of the state of the > hobby. > It would be nice to know just how many people at the NATS build the planes > that they fly. I have the greatest respect for the people like Phil that > build and fly the molded planes. It takes a real commitment to the hobby > and > building to acquire the skills and equipment needed to make composite and > molded plane. I am thinking that of all flyers at the NATS maybe 10-20% > would have built the planes they fly. This is just from observation from > being a spectator, timer, and relief driver of the carts at last years > NATS. > I think we will see even less flyer/builder/pilots this year with the > popularity of the Mark D. based design ARFs like the AVA. > > That said, maybe we should think about where new blood will come from, and > who is are target new members. Certainly they will not come from the young > people that have families to rise. The silent EXAMPLES we are giving at > our > contests say that the average cost of a competitive ship is as much or > more > than the young families house payment. Yes, you can get in cheaper but > people learn from what they see (the high percentage of very expensive > planes) and the not what they are told (It is not the equipment it's the > skill of the pilot that counts). It may be time to re-thing, and redirect, > where the AMA and LSF is directing the marketing for new soaring members. > > Flame proof pants on! > > John > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray Hayes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:16 AM > To: Phil Barnes; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Wood Crafters 06 Announcement > > Phil, I have tremendous respect for your contributions to rc soaring as > well, but maybe you should not be to too thin skinned on what is posted > here. Note that I included a smiley face, meaning this was a tongue in > cheek thing and not meant to cause hurt feelings. > > When I think of ARF, I don't think of Phil Barnes or composit scratch > builders, I think of Asia and Europe and see through wings. I bet I'm not > alone on this. > > BTW, I was flying " Old Fashioned " composit ( pressed balsa sheeting > glued > with epoxy over foam cores I cut ) in the 1980 (?) F3B Team Selection > Finals, I believe Dave Thornburg was the CD. So a little definition of > old > fashioned may be needed. > > Old fashion ways, hmmmmmmmmmm, do I sense a little disrespect, probably > not, > if there is, I'm too thick skinned to pick up on it. > > The most satisfaction I get from Wood Crafters is when new guys to rc > sailplanes, flying there first contest, get turned on to contest flying. > When they say to me, " I wasn't sure I would enjoy flying a contest, but I > do ", it is very satisfying to me. Several of these newbies have showed > up > at the Nats with their woodys and flew RES and Nostalgia and joined local > soaring clubs. I wish clubs from coast to coast would do more to promote > Newbies. > > Ray Hayes > http://www.skybench.com > Home of Wood Crafters > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Phil Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:53 PM > Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Wood Crafters 06 Announcement > > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ray Hayes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >Nostalgia at the Nats is canceled this >> > year and the rumor is the LSF NATS are going to be renamed >> > >> > AMA/LSF ARF NATS. :-) >> >> You know Ray, I have tremendous respect for what you have done to promote >> woody events and I am happy whenever I see that your events are >> successful >> and growing. The only thing that tweaks me is the way that some woody > fliers >> show so little respect for composite scratch builders and repeatedly post >> things that imply that you can't be a scratch builder unless you build >> the >> old fashioned way. >> >> How about showing the many composite scratch builders a little respect > now? >> >> Phil >> >> >> RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" > and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note > that > subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with > MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL > are generally NOT in text format >> > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" > and > "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that > subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with > MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL > are generally NOT in text format > > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" > and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note > that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format > with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and > AOL are generally NOT in text format > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
