I think that a more interesting question is what I am subscribing _to_.
Is this new service, or new users in known service?
That is, is this about getting information about new users in service I
trust, or about new services that pop up.

>From the description, it sounds like it is something that is aimed at
discovering new services, not new items within existing service.

On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 12:17 AM, Lior Sion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> it sounds to me that using http to discover new updates will create heavy
> stress on the server: tens of social networks each polling for new updates
> all the time on all the combined users..
>
> I might be missing something here, but if the publishing mechanism in
> recursive (that is, I subscribe to twitter/user/ABC so I would get any new
> thing related to ABC, their comments, tweets, presence, whatever) then what
> will the new announcement mechanism add?
>
> The difference between blog world pinging usages and social networking
> federation is that in the blog world, there's a distinct one to many
> relationship, or very close to it - many many small blogs updating a few
> distinct aggregation services, while social federation is different, no?
>
> Lior
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 12:09 AM, Ralph Meijer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 03:46:51PM -0400, Bob Wyman wrote:
>> > The results of last week's XMPP Summit are beginning to bleed out as
>> Ralphm
>> > blogs the first of a promised series of notes on the event.
>> > See: http://ralphm.net/blog/2008/07/26/xmpp_summit_5
>> > and http://ralphm.net/blog/2008/07/26/xmpp_social_networks_1
>> >
>> > Not surprisingly, it seems that those at the Summit agreed that the most
>> > sensible way to federate XMPP PubSub servers is to have various servers
>> > subscribe to each other. Thus, if I was running a microblogging service
>> that
>> > provided open access to "public" posts on my service, I might set up a
>> node to
>> > which I published all such "public" posts. Other microblogging services,
>> search
>> > engines, etc. would then subscribe to that node and, by doing so, could
>> mix
>> > messages published to my service with those published to their own
>> service.
>> >
>> > This approach of "Federation via Subscription" has some distinct
>> advantages
>> > over the alernative, "Federation via Publishing", particularly in that
>> it eases
>> > spam control and management of server resources. However, it has a
>> distinct
>> > disadvantage in that it makes it somewhat harder to form networks of
>> > cooperating servers.
>>
>> You couldn't wait until the end of the series did you? ;-)
>>
>> > In a system which relies on Federation via Subscription, all servers
>> that
>> > receive messages must have knowledge of potential publishers prior to
>> any data
>> > flowing between them. Given two servers, A and B, no data will flow from
>> A to B
>> > unless B first becomes aware of A and subsequently subscribes to at
>> least one
>> > node on A. The interesting question becomes: "How does B become aware of
>> A?".
>> > Since no data can flow between the two servers until a subscription is
>> > established, if there are no other mechanisms provided, one must assume
>> that B
>> > discovers A via "out-of-band" communications such as email messages,
>> phone
>> > calls, directory lookups, etc.  These are, of course, rather crude
>> discovery
>> > methods and require manual configuration upon discovery to establish
>> federating
>> > subscriptions.
>>
>> The approach we wanted to take was to come up with the simplest possible
>> thing that could work. The federation via subscription model is actually
>> pretty much the as how we do federation in Jabber IM settings, and that
>> seems to work reasonably well, I would say. That said, we didn't stop
>> just were you seem to assume, although some have suggested it during the
>> summit. I won't outright dismiss what you suggest here, because I need
>> to take a better look at it, but we came up with a different way of
>> discovering pubsub nodes that I think is very natural to how the web
>> works.
>>
>> The solution we came up with is using HTML and/or Atom link elements, on
>> pages/regular feeds that represent a person's updates, or his and and
>> his friends, etc. Pretty similar to how such pages currently point to
>> Atom/RSS feeds, we use a 'rel' of 'xmpp.feed' and the 'href' points to
>> the XMPP URI of the node, eg. xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED];node=updates. This
>> provides for an easy way to have one user on service A to subscribe to
>> another user on service B: the first user is very likely to know about
>> the page of the second user at site B. He inputs that URL and the
>> service can do auto discovery and subscribe all behind the scenes. I'll
>> expand on it more on my blog, but that seems the gist of it.
>>
>> I probably have more thoughts on this but need some sleep first. Cya!
>>
>> --
>> Groetjes,
>>
>> ralphm
>>
>
>
>
> --
> thanks,
> Lior Sion
>
> Skype: sionlior | GTalk: lior.sion
>

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