William, you did not address the opinion that Social Credit would cause inflation and not relieve poverty. I care more about this possible problem than where the opinion came from. Could Social Credit cause inflation and not relieve poverty? CS
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 07:58:10 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Thanks for forwarding this, Chick. There are several > things that are interesting about it. This > organization is marxist-anarchist. They would > eliminate government and money. The anarchist side > of their beliefs actually overlaps Douglas' theory. > Unlike them, however, Douglas was realist enough to > know that you cannot eliminate government and centers > of power but you should strive to minimize them and > decentralize them with checks and balances. Schemes > like a monetary authority with emphasis on the > authority emanate from John Hargrave, not Douglas. > Douglas would pay dividends directly to people. > Others, like Hargrave, saw nothing wrong with > allowing government to spend it into circulation > which of course gives those in control of government > supreme power. > > Since they believe there is no need for money, they > obviously haven't spent very much time thinking about > it as is evident from the following, which is > primitive as compared to even Marx's analysis: > > ***>In fact, there is no chronic shortage of > purchasing power. Sufficient [purchasing power] to > buy the product is generated as wages and profits in > the course of production; slumps are not caused by an > absolute shortage of purchasing power but arise when, > because of falling profit prospects, capitalist firms > choose not to spend all their profits on fully > renewing or on expanding production. Nor can banks > "create credit"; they are essentially only financial > intermediaries, borrowing money at one rate of > interest from people with cash to spare and lending > this at a higher rate to those needing money to spend > or invest, their profits coming from the difference > between the two interest rates. <*** > > Note: Topica does not archive attachments, but does > [or is supposed to--Topica performance has been > erratic lately] forward them. Some email software > sends the body of messages as attachments so will > archive completely blank with Topica. Also, some > email software does not allow the receipt of > attachments, so will be received completely blank. > Your message came through okay to my Hotmail address > but is blank in the Topica archive. I am therefore > appending the article below in plaintext for the > benefit of those who might have missed it. > -- > > > Socialist Standard > Journal of the Socialist Party of Great Britain > September, 2003 > http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/sep03/ > > Major Douglas rides again > > Adam Buick > > In the course of our nearly one hundred years of > socialist activity, one of the ideas that we have had > to deal with from time to time has been currency > crankism � the idea that economic and social problems > are caused by some flaw in the monetary system and > that what is required to put things right is not to > get rid of the profit system that is capitalism but > mere monetary reform (of one kind or another, > depending on which particular school the currency > crank belongs to). > > Between the wars the most popular school of currency > crankism in Britain was Social Credit, based on the > ideas of Major Douglas (as he was known). His > explanation for the slump � of poverty amidst > potential plenty, of unmet needs alongside idle > factories and widespread unemployment, of piles of > unsold goods being destroyed � was simple, not to say > simplistic: it was due to a lack of purchasing power, > to people not having enough money to buy what they > needed or to constitute a market worth catering for. > The solution, too, was simplistic: distribute > purchasing power free to people in the form of a > "social dividend" paid by the government. > > Douglas believed that banks could "create credit" by > the mere stroke of a pen, but that they deliberately > kept money scarce so as to be able to charge a higher > rate of interest. Hence his solution that the banks > should be taken over by the government and their > supposed power to create credit exercised but in the > general interest, as "social credit". > > In fact, there is no chronic shortage of purchasing > power. Sufficient [purchasing power] to buy the > product is generated as wages and profits in the > course of production; slumps are not caused by an > absolute shortage of purchasing power but arise when, > because of falling profit prospects, capitalist firms > choose not to spend all their profits on fully > renewing or on expanding production. Nor can banks > "create credit"; they are essentially only financial > intermediaries, borrowing money at one rate of > interest from people with cash to spare and lending > this at a higher rate to those needing money to spend > or invest, their profits coming from the difference > between the two interest rates. > > This being the case, the main result of applying > "social credit" would be roaring inflation. All the > other problems of capitalism, including periodically > re-occurring "poverty amidst plenty", would continue > unabated. They will only end when the means of > production are brought into common ownership and > democratic control so that they can be oriented > towards directly satisfying people's needs � when > banks, money and all the rest of the buying and > selling system will have become redundant. > > Normally, lack-of-purchasing power currency crank > theories flourish in times of slump. However, > according to an article by Derek Wall, "Social > Credit: The Ecosocialism of Fools", in the June issue > of Capitalism, Nature, Socialism, the modern-day > followers of Major Douglas are well ensconced in the > Green Party: > > "Brian Leslie, whose parents were members of the > Social Credit Greenshirts during the 1930s, chairs > the Green Party Economics Working Group. The > newsletter, Sustainable Economics, is almost entirely > concerned with social credit and Party economics > speaker Molly Scott Cato advocates monetary reform . > . . Frances Hutchinson, a former member of the Green > Party left grouping, the Association of Socialist > Greens, has revived the Douglas Social Credit > Secretariat . . . Wilfred Price, a member of the > Greenshirts in the 1930s, joined the Ecology Party > (now the Green Party) in the early 1980s and > powerfully spoke for social credit as a form of green > politics." > > Currency cranks find it easy to infiltrate the Green > Party because of the tendency amongst its members and > supporters to blame "big banks" and international > financial institutions for ecological problems and > the ravages of capitalist globalisation. The Green > Party has, for instance, lined up alongside the > Tories, the UKIP and other reactionaries in the > "defend the pound" camp because it sees the euro as > an international (in the sense of anti-national) > currency. > > Derek Wall's article concentrates on the political > side of Social Credit rather than on its economic > fallacies (though he recognises these), in particular > on the anti-semitic position it took up between the > wars. The title of his article is taken from August > Bebel, a pre-WWI German Social Democrat, who once > quipped that "anti-semitism is the socialism of the > fool", by which he meant the anti-capitalism of the > fool. And it is, of course, a short step between > denouncing "global finance" for causing problems to > blaming "international Jewish bankers" or some other > supposed international conspiracy or cabal. It was a > step that Douglas himself took. Wall quotes him as > writing in Social Credit (1933): > > "In a remarkable document which received some > publicity some years ago, under the title of 'The > Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion', a > Machiavellian scheme for the enslavement of the world > was outlined. The authenticity of this document is a > matter of little importance; what is interesting > about it, is the fidelity with which the methods by > which such enslavement might be brought about can be > seen reflected in the facts of everyday experience." > > Wall � a Green Party member who describes himself as > an "eco-Marxist" � recognises that Social Credit > doesn't have to be anti-semitic and that its > supporters in the Green movement (with one exception) > are not. His concern is to warn the Green Party and > the anti-globalisation movement against embracing > monetary reform as a quick-fix solution but also of > the dangerous company they risk falling into if they > continue down the road of blaming "global finance" > for ruining "national" � and local � economies. > -- > > > > ----original message---- > Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 07:15:43 -0600 > From: Chick Hurst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [SOCIAL CREDIT] Wants Critical Comment > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > This message was sent to the Alberta Social Credit > Party by someone who wants a response from the Social > Credit perspective. I thought it might be > interesting to see what the list might have to say > about it. > > Chick > > ----- > From: Robert Stafford > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 3:57 AM > Subject: Critical comment > > Hi! > > Having recently visited your website, I am sure you > will be interested to read a critical examination of > social credit. The essay in question, Major Douglas > rides again, appears below and is taken from the > September 2003 Socialist Standard. > > Needless to say, any feedback would be much > appreciated. > > Yours for a world without money, > > R > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos > Mail! > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 > > > > --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84IaC.bcVIgP.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^----------------------------------------------------------------
