"the BIG effectively neutralizes the movement for reform....."
Dear Mr.Klink
I read your e-mail & couldn't agree more. The very SIZE of anything has
a telling impact on its surroundings & the environment. Social insitutions
included. The great Leopold Kohr 'The Breakdown of Nations', Schumacher
'Small is Beautiful' & John Papworth 'The 4th World Review" URL:
www.cesc.net all address the same vital point, that democracy to exist at
all, has to be SMALL & LOCAL in nature. And what's so good about democracy?
Why it allows greater FREEDOM & self-determination to all.
Things are of course going in the wrong direction what with NAFTA, the
E.U., and with the WTO/New recently envigorated NATO, all neeing more & more
money - from the citizen, who else? - to survive. Keep the warnings coming.
Regards - Diamantis.
PS Money too should be local too & in the hands & control of the people.
Hence big centralised banks do a big DISservice for they distance they
source from the user. LETS, time$'s, Ithaka Hours & other 'communiy'
currencies, do not & indeed this accounts for their hue popularity, no?
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Wallace M. Klinck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 4:36 AM
Subject: Re: [SOCIAL CREDIT] National Dividend Means Test?: Wally comments
> Thanks Jessop--I believe you do!
>
> Sincerely
> Wally
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [SOCIAL CREDIT] National Dividend Means Test?: Wally comments
>
>
> > To all, but mainly to Bill and Wally
> >
> > Okay, chaps -- I hear you and will go straight for the main chance with
no
> > compromises. I mean it. :-)
> >
> > Jessop.
> > -----------------
> >
> >
> > On Thursday 02 Oct 2003 9:54 am, you wrote:
> > > I agree essentially with Bill's comments below. Any attempt to
> institute a
> > > National Dividend on the basis of recovery involves taxation. Under a
> > > Social Credit dispensation, the Dividend is automatically cancelled
when
> it
> > > passes back from the consumer to industry and the banks with
adjustments
> in
> > > the National Credit Account. This idea of recovery is reminescent of
> > > William Aberhart's early misconception of Social Credit, later
> thankfully
> > > overcome. It resembles the "disappearing money" theories of the
> socialist
> > > economist Silvio Gesell. As H. E. Nicholls, as chief researcher for
the
> > > Alberta "Social Credit" League (who was sequestered, and told what to
> do,
> > > in a back room in Social Credit League headquarters in Edmonton) once
> told
> > > me "Douglas said that money already disappears too rapidly."
> > >
> > > Social Credit is not here to accomodate the orthodoxy (of the
Left-Right
> > > nexus) because the latter is the problem, not the solution. Ours is
a
> > > fresh new approach to hold up and stir the imagination--generate hope
in
> a
> > > hopeless world. I believe there is an old saying that "It takes a
long
> > > spoon to sup with the Devil." This is the time in a country like
South
> > > Africa (and yes, in the United States which faces a deepening
financial
> > > abyss--as elsewhere) to be bold, clear and definintive--to inspire.
> When
> > > Social Credit attempts to accomodate orthodoxy the difference becomes
> > > blurred and Social Credit becomes absorbed and emasculated (remember
the
> > > flirtation with the Labor Party in New Zealand). We stand for a NEW
> way--a
> > > NEW civilization. Alaska has no difficulty in paying all of its
> citizens a
> > > universal dividend (admittedly not a true Social Credit
> dividend)--indeed,
> > > I believe the program is immensely popular. Are South Aftricans
really
> > > that different?
> > >
> > > Wally
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:03 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [SOCIAL CREDIT] National Dividend Means Test?
> > >
> > > > ***| They are talking about a BIG paid from taxes.
> > > >
> > > > |***
> > > >
> > > > Which is why it will never go anywhere or accomplish
> > > > anything, because it would require either more taxes
> > > > which are impossible to collect to fund the BIG, or
> > > > the diversion of taxes already being collected from
> > > > other programs that have entrenched constituencies
> > > > that will not let them go. The BIG effectively
> > > > neutralizes the movement for reform.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ***| What I suggest is just a simpler way of allowing
> > > > some to benefit from the dividend and others not.
> > > >
> > > > |***
> > > >
> > > > The simplest way is to simply target the dividend in
> > > > its initial implementation to those most in need--the
> > > > first desideratum. Why make it so complicated? What
> > > > pitiful excuses for revolutionaries are the present
> > > > leaders of South Africa! And so unimaginative in a
> > > > land that is inherently one of the richest in the
> > > > world. This deplorable situation was recently
> > > > reported in the New York Times:
> > > >
> > > > "Like most squatters, Thabang's mother, Mosele
> > > > Malakoane, lives in a shack of caked mud, dung and
> > > > rusty sheets of corrugated tin, its meager roof
> > > > covered with black plastic weighted down by stones.
> > > > Inside are a few sticks of wooden furniture, a shred
> > > > of curtain hanging off a tiny window, a paraffin
> > > > stove and the double bed she shared with her son.
> > > > Thabang had two worn toys: a steam shovel and a small
> > > > gray airplane."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ***| I would be quite happy to give indiscriminately
> > > > to all, but we will never achieve that. |***
> > > >
> > > > Who says "indiscriminate"? And who says "never"?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ***| In the South African political field we still
> > > > have very strong feelings about the injustices of the
> > > > past regime. There is still a strong desire for
> > > > redress, which in effect means to withhold from the
> > > > previously-privileged and give positions, status,
> > > > services, social security, etc., to the previously
> > > > disadvantaged. |***
> > > >
> > > > And in doing so they have achieved a regime that in
> > > > financial terms is substantially more orthodox than
> > > > before. In this regard it is perhaps the most
> > > > conservative regime in the world. In every
> > > > statistical measure except for what we call in
> > > > America call integration, the situation in South
> > > > Africa is degrading.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ***| We have an active Labour movement and a vibrant
> > > > Communist Party whose constituencies are drawn from
> > > > that previously-disadvantaged segment which
> > > > constitutes about 90% of our population. |***
> > > >
> > > > Not the ideologues and demagogues but the rank and
> > > > file can be recruited to social credit, for it offers
> > > > the real prospect of improving the situation. South
> > > > Africa faces a fork in the road that will determine
> > > > its destiny and perhaps the destiny of the world.
> > > > One direction is increasing stagnation. One
> > > > direction is increasing prosperity. It is up to us
> > > > who see the truth to show the way because there's
> > > > nobody else to do it. South Africa is at present in
> > > > revolutionary ferment. It is a critical moment in
> > > > history where bold leadership can make a real
> > > > difference.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ***| So they delisted. Their stated policy is that
> > > > they are not out to make a profit, which is what
> > > > shareholders would demand. |***
> > > >
> > > > You still don't get it. The controlling block of
> > > > shareholders names half the directors. The
> > > > government probably ratifies their nominations for
> > > > the other half.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Subject: Re: [SOCIAL CREDIT] National Dividend Means Test?
> > > > Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:56:41 +0200
> > > >
> > > > A couple of points in response to Bill.
> > > > [snipped]
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra
> Storage
> > > > today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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