Octavian - a couple of things: MODO, as a public application, started with a modeling feature set, BUT, the frame work "Nexus" was made well before to be scalable since the idea all along was to create a full featured application.
The reason that they started with modeling from what I can tell, then rendering, was because they needed to A) start somewhere they had expertise in and B) saw a niche that was not being met well by many other applications- namely a very good modeling tool set that would quickly have an intuitive rendering/shading system that was affordable. Otherwise they were going to come out with one large tool, that took 12years to make, that was a "maya wannabe"- and would be understandably panned. Why spend 3K on something that looks like Maya when Maya already works? Anyone who knows SI history gets how painful it can be to have a superior app bogged down by long dev time get over taken by something inferior because it fills the gap move quickly. AKA Maya vs. XSI during the SI dev gap. So this was a marketing/biz move as much as a functional one AFAIK- make a product for the niche of designer and viz folks as well as those who want a better modeling solution working in games and film (this is way before graphite etc.) that was intuitive and easy to use. Grow in that market, make a name that way, grow funds for further dev, and then start to reveal additional features based on the Nexus frame work as the user base and needs grew. The only thing I have to ask of you is to please stop referring to MODO as if it is Silo with some Max like bolting on happening. I'm not defending the software- it has short comings and is not going to replace SI in it's current state esp. if what you love most about SI came after the 7 cycle. It has a lot to love about it, but a fair share of things to be improved (thankfully they are), but it's not some ill conceived, mutant modeler on steroids either. I can see why you would think of it that way though, because from the outside that is what it has represented to many studios. I see it like how SI is now thought of as ICE. Yes...it's probably one of the top features of SI, but it lead a lot of people (no thanks to AD marketing) to think that's all SI was good for. Those of us using it before the 7 cycle know that much of SI and the general work flow kicked some serious ass before that. SI had short comings, but day do day work flow for the average user was IMHO a joy. Many of those things are harder to market other than by word of mouth. So now SI=ICE which is a shame since years of dev show it's so much more than that. If all SI is/was is ICE, then I think there would be fewer tears in this list and more people just saying F*it I'm going to use Houdini. So yes, to those outside for what ever reason MODO is "that modeling app thingy", but just like SI is more than ICE, MODO is more than modeling, even if that is what many people still find it does best. They biggest part I'd have to say that MODO and SI share in common is a desire to have the experience of using the software day to day be a good one- the over all work flow, vs. just slamming in features and bolting them on. I'm not saying this is a 1:1 match up, but it feels more so than say comparing Maya to SI, or even Houdini to SI. On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Octavian Ureche <[email protected]> wrote: > Chris, you might be right. I worked about a full year in houdini doing > things i should have done in xsi, and it was a bloody pain. I tried to > model a phone once and that was before the shelf existed. For every surface > operation i did, i had to throw down a node in the graph. After 2 days, i > just went home and did it all in xsi, in about 3 hours. So i understand > where you're coming from. > I am not a fan of houdini's workflow when it comes to stuff i usually did > in xsi. I definitely understand its potential for handling complexity, but > as a good friend and collaborator of mine was saying today, it is a > perverse little piece of software, and i will explain why. He said that its > procedural paradigm works so well, that even for an artist like him (and he > is the least technical guy i know), it became fascinating to hook things > together and just find your way through the logical maze. So he was saying, > that in that sense, this kind of workflow has a way of drawing you in and > making you forget the big picture at times. I stood near houdini people and > watched them completely lose focus on the end result, just hooking shit up > just for the sake of finding a "procedural" solution, sometimes a multitude > of solutions, almost obsessively, to stuff i was able to do in a quarter of > that time in xsi, non procedurally of course. But the client never cared. > So in that sense, i agree, that it is hard to impossible for houdini to > reach that level of abstraction in which it is able to retain its > procedural paradigm, but make things flow smoothly on the surface and make > the user forget about all the things that happen behind the curtains. > I would also like to add blender to this list, which i've been keeping an > eye out for some time, and they have made great strides with the app. > Though open source tools never feel as polished as their commercial > counterparts, but that's a whole other topic. > > > > On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Chris Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > >> After spending a year working in Houdini I'm not sure sideFX can do that >> "make it more artist friendly". Have you ever tried modelling something in >> there or even unwrapping it. Feck. For years there has been a push for side >> FX to make the software more artist friendly...and it just never gets >> there. Why do I have to put expressions in to do light inclusion/exclusion? >> I am not a technical person and I found Houdini incredibly aggravating to >> work with. It has some really nice things going for it and I see the >> advantages from a technical/FX stand point. But to become a tool I can >> quickly crank some style frames out of...never happen. I'd go to C4D before >> using Houdini for that stuff. I'm with Tim....you get Redshift over into >> Modo...I think that's going somewhere. It would be easier to develop Modo >> going forward then to backwards engineer Houdini....I think. >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Octavian Ureche <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> I like modo, i really do, but i just can't wrap my head around the idea >>> of a modeling application becoming an allrounder. I think tremendous rnd >>> effort will be required from the dev team to get it even close to where xsi >>> is right now, taking a lot of years in the process. And i'm not sure they >>> have those kinds of resources at their disposal. For that reason, i think >>> sidefx has a better chance of making houdini's workflow (emphasis here on >>> rigging and animation) a lot smoother and appealing to artists, than modo >>> has of getting to that level of consistent complexity. And consistency >>> across the board is key here. Then again, i might be way off with my >>> thinking.... >>> >>> Just my 2 cents, >>> Peace, >>> Octav >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 6:18 PM, Tim Crowson < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Concerning a Modo roadmap, I couldn't share any specifics even if I >>>> had them (I don't anyway). I know generally that performance and >>>> scalability are waaaaay high up on the priority list. If they're not >>>> exactly #1, they've gotta be close to it. I think they really do realize >>>> the serious obstacles presented by Modo's current trouble with deformer >>>> speed, weight-painting speed, etc. The viewport can actually handle a ton >>>> of polys really well, by most accounts superior to what Maya can do, but >>>> deformers seem to give the GL redraw some trouble. This is a known issue >>>> for sure, and the Modo devs are well aware of it. >>>> >>>> I have definitely been encouraged by the last two releases of Modo. 601 >>>> and 701 really hit some home runs. You can't put everything that everyone >>>> wants into a single release, but they've got a great track record, >>>> especially over the last 2-3 years, of making some real power plays with >>>> their upgrades. It's all relative to what your needs are in your particular >>>> corner of CG, naturally, but it's an upward trend, and one which will >>>> continue with 801 ;-) >>>> >>>> Softimage and Modo have been two favorite apps to run on my workstation >>>> over the last several years, hands down. I see some interesting >>>> similarities when I compare the philosophies that drove their respective >>>> designs. >>>> >>>> If we could get Redshift in Modo.... oh man.... >>>> >>>> -Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3/5/2014 10:00 AM, Mirko Jankovic wrote: >>>> >>>> when was AD giving any roadmap at all??? committing you to pay subs >>>> without knowing at all what will you get next year. cat in the back. well >>>> we did know what they have on road map for SI.. end of the road... >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Chris Johnson <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Do they have a summary somewhere of the road map for the software? If >>>>> your talking to Brad...thanks Tim! >>>>> >>>>> Also be nice if Autodesk gave us a roadmap for them so we're not all >>>>> spinning our wheels. If MAX is dead in the next year be nice to know. Even >>>>> if they were in development of some uber software...a general idea behind >>>>> a >>>>> release date? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Tim Crowson < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I've contacted Brad to try to find out what the deal will be, >>>>>> regarding 801. I'm not privvy to the release date, so I honestly don't >>>>>> know >>>>>> when that's coming. >>>>>> -Tim >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/5/2014 8:44 AM, Maurício PC wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm willing to buy it, but I don't know if I should wait for Modo >>>>>> 801. Because to buy this and later have to spend more 500 USD to update >>>>>> will put a serious hole on my wallet. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anybody knows if this purchase will lets us upgrade to 801 >>>>>> with a nice discount? :D >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway ... Brad always seemed like a great guy and this is prove of >>>>>> that. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Gerbrand Nel <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I love seeing gestures like this. >>>>>>> Anyone know how long this discount is valid for. >>>>>>> I'd like to try it for a bit before blindly spending, what is still >>>>>>> allot of money, if you happen to live in Africa :) >>>>>>> G >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2014/03/05 05:15 AM, Raffaele Fragapane wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> If you can't be bothered to read some text, the important bit is in >>>>>>> bold a few paragraphs down. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now that the worst kept secret EVER has seen the sunlight, while >>>>>>> everybody is still shell shocked, I think it's worth posting this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd like to say I'm surprised, or emotionally drained, but I'm >>>>>>> actually barely upset. Writing's been on the wall for entirely too long. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Deciding to not use Maya just because it's an AD product, at least >>>>>>> for me, is like cutting one's own nose to spite the face; then in my >>>>>>> domain >>>>>>> (character work) Maya is too significant a player to just outright >>>>>>> ignore >>>>>>> it out of principle, not to mention I've been using it professionally or >>>>>>> personally since v1. >>>>>>> That said maybe some of you work in a different domain, and for you >>>>>>> Modo, or Houdini, or C4D are a viable option. >>>>>>> Coming from there, and more on topic, I have little faith in all >>>>>>> these petitions, rage posts and the such, so I thought I'd start a >>>>>>> different line of efforts to help a community I've been part of for >>>>>>> Idon'twanttothinkhowlongitsscary. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> More on topic, if I had to find issue with this announcement and >>>>>>> all it entails it's how badly it was managed and conceived. >>>>>>> Not only it's an incredibly ponderous decision with inevitable >>>>>>> gravity, it was also announced with barely any time to spare between its >>>>>>> intended date and some hard dates on its effects. >>>>>>> Of everything I heard and read insofar it's not so much the killing >>>>>>> of Soft I find unacceptable (I guess I was well resigned in those >>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>> not that it doesn't sadden me enormously), as much as what picture it >>>>>>> paints of AD customer management when they do such a thing, and proceed >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> aggravate the issue with nebulous information and an unacceptably short >>>>>>> window of time for the user base to make some rather consequential >>>>>>> decisions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But are the competitors any better? Any more accessible and >>>>>>> transparent in their communication and dealings? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, I was having an exchange in private with Brad Peebler, >>>>>>> founder of Luxology, and I put to him whether the Foundry/Luxology would >>>>>>> have the flexibility and agility to do something about short term. >>>>>>> Turns out they do. >>>>>>> In a few hours they set up everything for a *50% discount on >>>>>>> Modo*purchases. No strings attached, just because I jokingly challenged >>>>>>> him to. >>>>>>> *Go to the online store and use the coupon "raffofkahn" for half >>>>>>> price check-out.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not a Modo user, nor have the time or inclination right now to >>>>>>> become one. I'm not going to suddenly wish AD any ill or stop using >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> products, though they sure did their damnest to make me even more >>>>>>> guarded >>>>>>> when dealing with their PR and promises. >>>>>>> I did really enjoy dealing with the Foundry in the past though, and >>>>>>> I have now to extend that respect to its Luxology arm. At the very least >>>>>>> they are willing to act transparently and unconditionally on matters all >>>>>>> the way from the top of the product chain. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Raff >>>>>>> >>>>>>> P.S. >>>>>>> The actual coupon's text was Brad's idea, not mine! I imagine he >>>>>>> read my signature and thought I was a Trekkie or something like that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> P.P.S. >>>>>>> I'm not getting anything out of this. I'm not a modo user, I'm not >>>>>>> getting freebies, it has nothing to do with my employer, what the hell, >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> barely has anything to do with me outside the last few hours and this >>>>>>> e-mail itself. I simply thought it was a nice and significant gesture on >>>>>>> Brad's side and decided to help him reach out on account of his >>>>>>> personality >>>>>>> and display of good will. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! >>>>>>> Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> gonebadfx.com >>>>>> - your source for bad fx >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Octavian Ureche >>> +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2) >>> Animation & Visual Effects >>> www.okto.ro >>> >> >> > > > -- > Octavian Ureche > +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2) > Animation & Visual Effects > www.okto.ro > -- Gideon D. Klindt gideonklindt.com
