Chris, seriously? yo ad want it all right? F.
On Sunday, March 16, 2014, Chris Vienneau <[email protected]> wrote: > The topic was bringing over ICE graphs into Bifrost. We will not show the > Bifrost graph in the first version but if you click here ( > https://www.fxguide.com/featured/bifrost-the-return-of-the-naiad-team-with-a-bridge-to-ice/) > you can see what we showed at Siggraph last year in terms of the graph. > > > > Let me ask a very open question to Paul Doyle. Paul when people say the > creators of ICE work at Fabric do you agree? Many on the Bifrost team would > argue they were just as much a part of it than the hard working guys at > Fabric. I think it is great that there are two companies following this > path and that will only mean competition which is a good thing but I do > believe there are many people who came together and not just 1-2 who drove > the whole thing. > > > > ICE is a set of base function nodes built into higher order operations > (compounds) with a super slick visual programming language and strong ways > of querying scene data. Given we have the source code of ICE we can put in > nodes that match 1 for 1 the code instead of reverse engineering it which > is usually where things fall apart in terms of migration tools. > > > > We can even open this up to the fabric guys who are here so of these node > types which do you use the most on a daily basis and which do not use or > find need work: > > > > Array< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Array.htm > > > > * Color< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Color.htm > > > * Constant< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Constant.htm > > > * Conversion< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Conversion.htm > > > * Data Access< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_DataAccess.htm > > > * Debugging< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Debugging.htm > > > * Execution< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Execution.htm > > > * Geometry Queries< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_GeometryQueries.htm > > > * Math Basic< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathBasic.htm > > > * Math Comparison< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathComparison.htm > > > * Math Logic< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathLogic.htm > > > * Math Matrix< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathMatrix.htm > > > * Math Statistics< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathStatistics.htm > > > * Math Trigonometry< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathTrigonometry.htm > > > * Math Vector< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathVector.htm > > > * Point Cloud< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_PointCloud.htm > > > * Rotation< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-DCAC50A6-C3FD-47D0-8F5A-6A161EBD3E68.htm > > > * Simulation< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Simulation.htm > > > * String< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/iceref_nodes_String.htm > > > * Topology< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-FBD0D4AB-F90F-4C2C-A3D5-2EA677678349.htm > > > * Crowds< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-1D883E93-17DD-4CB2-AA3D-C50A33E2F7FF.htm > > > * Syflex Simul< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-96B37421-0112-41FE-8255-B8D7EE37AE63.htm > > > * Syflex Force< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-3CD07777-CE7F-4EF9-9E5C-A1A0C35D2B14.htm > > > * Syflex Collision< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-9CDA70F0-F9F3-4897-8698-72A9B8878926.htm > > > * Syflex Constraint< > http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-1D551989-2D9C-48F1-A099-8511B514B535.htm > > > > > > Thx. > > > > > > cv/ > > > > ________________________________ > From: [email protected] <javascript:;> [ > [email protected] <javascript:;>] on behalf of Nick > Martinelli [[email protected] <javascript:;>] > Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 4:59 PM > To: [email protected] <javascript:;> > Subject: Re: "Top List of ICE Nodes That Cover 80% of What You Do With The > Toolset" > > I agree 100% with what everyone is saying. > > I would like to add that ICE isn't a point and click system, so it's > impossible to give a universal list. There isn't one way to do anything, > just ways that work. Two artists can have a similar result with > drastically different ICE trees. > > Imagine that you ask two people to write an equation that equals 10. One > might say 7+3 and the other might go with 40/4, both are correct, they just > got there different ways. > > That's the beauty of ICE. It's versatility and efficiency to allow the > artist to work the way they want to without sacrificing quality and > production time. > > > > On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Bk <[email protected] <javascript:;> > <mailto:[email protected] <javascript:;>>> wrote: > Bradley has expressed exactly, what I have been trying to compose over the > last week. Yet better than I could. > > 1 Autodesk either never room the time to understand ICE, > 2 or kept it under wraps in order to not let it steal the thunder from > Bifrost in the future. Weird decision, as they could have used it as a > taster to get people excited. > 3 Or of course, there remains the possibility they are just a bit simple > and confused and deserve our sympathy. > > Ironically, the team that actually Made ICE are onto what could be seen as > "ICE version 2 standalone or in any package". Fabric Engine. (cue "binary > sunset on tatooine" music) > > I have no doubt that the successor to ICE is the future. I do actually > thing that Bifrost is heading there, but if option 3 (above) is not the > case, I'd be nervous, to say the least. Because I believe Fabric is going > to get in there first by a long shot. > And we SI users have learnt the hard way, about how important it is to get > tools into studios and pipelines first. > > On 15 Mar 2014, at 19:55, Mirko Jankovic > <[email protected]<javascript:;> > <mailto:[email protected] <javascript:;>>> wrote: > > Bradley you nailed it with this one, and also points out what really AD > system does look like.. bunch of bullet points of separate marketing ready > features that looks nice on list when you showing it to sales. > The matter that those separate features have little to non meaningful > communications one with other... communication that actually makes > workflow.. that doesn't mean much I guess. > > > On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Bradley Gabe > <[email protected]<javascript:;> > <mailto:[email protected] <javascript:;>>> wrote: > This is what concerns me about the future for where Autodesk takes their > DCC flagships. Bullet-point thinking. > > It's not any specific list of ICE nodes that make it so powerful and > useful, rather it's how well it plays within the data structures of the > rest of the application. > > Everyone who ever looked at ICE from the outside, without ever going into > the daily battle that is production, simply saw it as a particle system > (and maybe tipped their hat to it's clever ability to multiprocesses). And > despite the SI community's repeated insistence ICE was far more important > than that, a particle system is precisely how it was marketed by Autodesk, > providing continuing evidence that Autodesk didn't know what they actually > had, didn't want to listen to the people who were actually using it... or > didn't care. > > In real estate, they say the most important things are location, location, > location. In CG production, the most important things are workarounds, > workarounds, workarounds. ICE has provided SI users with a highly potent, > splendidly integrated, reasonably artist friendly, visual node based > toolkit for discovering and developing production workarounds, without > having to resort to coding for every little thing. Particle effects are > merely a byproduct of the system. > > It was through interacting with ICE that I developed a much more profound > understanding of CG data structures, an intuitive sense of how the linear > algebra drives transforms, of how I could influence operators to do the > things I could only imagine in times past. Every day in production is a day > of experiment and discovery using ICE. Do you have any idea how empowering > that feels after years of waiting for technical help from developers that > never arrived? > > Furthermore, after years of tech experimenting and workarounds with ICE, > my ability to develop non-ICE tools for animation, deformation, etc, had > increased drastically. Tools that used to require a week for me to work out > the math, I could develop in less than a day, because ICE had both provided > me with enough practice to greatly enhance my thinking, but also because I > could use it as a prototype laboratory to quickly hash out more difficult > concepts, prior to sitting down to write out the code. > > If you're wondering why people are concerned about life without XSI, these > are some pretty major reasons. You're going to have to convince us the > future of node-based work in Maya/Max isn't a bullet point list of nodes > for creating particle or fluid sim effects. Rather, that it's a fully > developed, operator development kit, from which particles, fluids, > simulations, and all kinds of production workarounds, workarounds, > workarounds are possible! > > -Bradley > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Mar 15, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Andy Jones <[email protected]<javascript:;> > <mailto:[email protected] <javascript:;>>> wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 6:41 AM, Chris Vienneau < > [email protected] <javascript:;><mailto: > [email protected] <javascript:;>>> wrote: > Do you guys think there is a top list of nodes in ICE and compounds you > all use that cover 80% of what you do with the toolset? > > Nope > > > > > -- > > Nick Martinelli > (201) 424 - 6518 > www.nickMartinelli.net<http://www.nickMartinelli.net> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] <javascript:;>> >
