Chris, lets err on the side of caution and implement them all, as they
will all be needed at one time or another. The cool thing about ICE is
that one never knows what kind of cool tools another user would dream
up. Having all of the nodes gives us all the ability to create that
which doesn't even exist yet.
Innovative approaches to ICE was why I fell in love with it.
I remember Felix Gebhardts forest vs man sim back in 2008, and
remembered thinking that this new paradigm in working gave us the
potential for limitless innovation.
Then Paul Smith went in and remade space invaders... for fun in ICE.
Not what the devs originally had in mind I am guessing.
There are so many neat little ways people have leveraged ICE power in
unexpected ways, this is why people are so upset, and our community is
up in arms. It feels like our maximum creative potential is being
stripped away.
So, if we're forced to biFrost, which I'm hoping like hell is all it's
cracked up to be, then port the nodes and compounds over, and let's
start anew.
Nuff said
Adam
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Enoch Ihde <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
@chris:
i use pretty much all of the generic & general nodes, as i think
any user of ice does.
whether or not people use syflex stuff will depend on if they're
doing syflex specific cloth work.
you understand that this question of "which of this list of
datatypes do you use?" is a bit ridiculous?
i suppose you're trying to prioritize what to implement and when,
but you're basically saying "do you use floats, ints, for loops,
arrays, data comparisons, and logic operations, and which ones do
you use the most?"
a very odd question, don't you think?
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Chris Vienneau
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
The topic was bringing over ICE graphs into Bifrost. We will
not show the Bifrost graph in the first version but if you
click here
(https://www.fxguide.com/featured/bifrost-the-return-of-the-naiad-team-with-a-bridge-to-ice/)
you can see what we showed at Siggraph last year in terms of
the graph.
Let me ask a very open question to Paul Doyle. Paul when
people say the creators of ICE work at Fabric do you agree?
Many on the Bifrost team would argue they were just as much a
part of it than the hard working guys at Fabric. I think it is
great that there are two companies following this path and
that will only mean competition which is a good thing but I do
believe there are many people who came together and not just
1-2 who drove the whole thing.
ICE is a set of base function nodes built into higher order
operations (compounds) with a super slick visual programming
language and strong ways of querying scene data. Given we have
the source code of ICE we can put in nodes that match 1 for 1
the code instead of reverse engineering it which is usually
where things fall apart in terms of migration tools.
We can even open this up to the fabric guys who are here so of
these node types which do you use the most on a daily basis
and which do not use or find need work:
Array<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Array.htm>
*
Color<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Color.htm>
*
Constant<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Constant.htm>
*
Conversion<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Conversion.htm>
* Data
Access<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_DataAccess.htm>
*
Debugging<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Debugging.htm>
*
Execution<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Execution.htm>
* Geometry
Queries<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_GeometryQueries.htm>
* Math
Basic<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathBasic.htm>
* Math
Comparison<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathComparison.htm>
* Math
Logic<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathLogic.htm>
* Math
Matrix<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathMatrix.htm>
* Math
Statistics<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathStatistics.htm>
* Math
Trigonometry<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathTrigonometry.htm>
* Math
Vector<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathVector.htm>
* Point
Cloud<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_PointCloud.htm>
*
Rotation<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-DCAC50A6-C3FD-47D0-8F5A-6A161EBD3E68.htm>
*
Simulation<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Simulation.htm>
*
String<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/iceref_nodes_String.htm>
*
Topology<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-FBD0D4AB-F90F-4C2C-A3D5-2EA677678349.htm>
*
Crowds<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-1D883E93-17DD-4CB2-AA3D-C50A33E2F7FF.htm>
* Syflex
Simul<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-96B37421-0112-41FE-8255-B8D7EE37AE63.htm>
* Syflex
Force<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-3CD07777-CE7F-4EF9-9E5C-A1A0C35D2B14.htm>
* Syflex
Collision<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-9CDA70F0-F9F3-4897-8698-72A9B8878926.htm>
* Syflex
Constraint<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-1D551989-2D9C-48F1-A099-8511B514B535.htm>
Thx.
cv/
________________________________
From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] on behalf of
Nick Martinelli [[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>]
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 4:59 PM
To: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: "Top List of ICE Nodes That Cover 80% of What You
Do With The Toolset"
I agree 100% with what everyone is saying.
I would like to add that ICE isn't a point and click system,
so it's impossible to give a universal list. There isn't one
way to do anything, just ways that work. Two artists can have
a similar result with drastically different ICE trees.
Imagine that you ask two people to write an equation that
equals 10. One might say 7+3 and the other might go with
40/4, both are correct, they just got there different ways.
That's the beauty of ICE. It's versatility and efficiency to
allow the artist to work the way they want to without
sacrificing quality and production time.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Bk <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
Bradley has expressed exactly, what I have been trying to
compose over the last week. Yet better than I could.
1 Autodesk either never room the time to understand ICE,
2 or kept it under wraps in order to not let it steal the
thunder from Bifrost in the future. Weird decision, as they
could have used it as a taster to get people excited.
3 Or of course, there remains the possibility they are just a
bit simple and confused and deserve our sympathy.
Ironically, the team that actually Made ICE are onto what
could be seen as "ICE version 2 standalone or in any package".
Fabric Engine. (cue "binary sunset on tatooine" music)
I have no doubt that the successor to ICE is the future. I do
actually thing that Bifrost is heading there, but if option 3
(above) is not the case, I'd be nervous, to say the least.
Because I believe Fabric is going to get in there first by a
long shot.
And we SI users have learnt the hard way, about how important
it is to get tools into studios and pipelines first.
On 15 Mar 2014, at 19:55, Mirko Jankovic
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
Bradley you nailed it with this one, and also points out what
really AD system does look like.. bunch of bullet points of
separate marketing ready features that looks nice on list when
you showing it to sales.
The matter that those separate features have little to non
meaningful communications one with other... communication
that actually makes workflow.. that doesn't mean much I guess.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Bradley Gabe
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
This is what concerns me about the future for where Autodesk
takes their DCC flagships. Bullet-point thinking.
It's not any specific list of ICE nodes that make it so
powerful and useful, rather it's how well it plays within the
data structures of the rest of the application.
Everyone who ever looked at ICE from the outside, without ever
going into the daily battle that is production, simply saw it
as a particle system (and maybe tipped their hat to it's
clever ability to multiprocesses). And despite the SI
community's repeated insistence ICE was far more important
than that, a particle system is precisely how it was marketed
by Autodesk, providing continuing evidence that Autodesk
didn't know what they actually had, didn't want to listen to
the people who were actually using it... or didn't care.
In real estate, they say the most important things are
location, location, location. In CG production, the most
important things are workarounds, workarounds, workarounds.
ICE has provided SI users with a highly potent, splendidly
integrated, reasonably artist friendly, visual node based
toolkit for discovering and developing production workarounds,
without having to resort to coding for every little thing.
Particle effects are merely a byproduct of the system.
It was through interacting with ICE that I developed a much
more profound understanding of CG data structures, an
intuitive sense of how the linear algebra drives transforms,
of how I could influence operators to do the things I could
only imagine in times past. Every day in production is a day
of experiment and discovery using ICE. Do you have any idea
how empowering that feels after years of waiting for technical
help from developers that never arrived?
Furthermore, after years of tech experimenting and workarounds
with ICE, my ability to develop non-ICE tools for animation,
deformation, etc, had increased drastically. Tools that used
to require a week for me to work out the math, I could develop
in less than a day, because ICE had both provided me with
enough practice to greatly enhance my thinking, but also
because I could use it as a prototype laboratory to quickly
hash out more difficult concepts, prior to sitting down to
write out the code.
If you're wondering why people are concerned about life
without XSI, these are some pretty major reasons. You're going
to have to convince us the future of node-based work in
Maya/Max isn't a bullet point list of nodes for creating
particle or fluid sim effects. Rather, that it's a fully
developed, operator development kit, from which particles,
fluids, simulations, and all kinds of production workarounds,
workarounds, workarounds are possible!
-Bradley
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 15, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Andy Jones <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 6:41 AM, Chris Vienneau
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
Do you guys think there is a top list of nodes in ICE and
compounds you all use that cover 80% of what you do with the
toolset?
Nope
--
Nick Martinelli
(201) 424 - 6518 <tel:%28201%29%20424%20-%206518>
www.nickMartinelli.net
<http://www.nickMartinelli.net><http://www.nickMartinelli.net>
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
