Yeah I wasn't talking data types. Things like syflex and crowds was the main gist of the question.
Sent from Windows Mail From: Enoch Ihde Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 7:08 PM To: softimage @chris: i use pretty much all of the generic & general nodes, as i think any user of ice does. whether or not people use syflex stuff will depend on if they're doing syflex specific cloth work. you understand that this question of "which of this list of datatypes do you use?" is a bit ridiculous? i suppose you're trying to prioritize what to implement and when, but you're basically saying "do you use floats, ints, for loops, arrays, data comparisons, and logic operations, and which ones do you use the most?" a very odd question, don't you think? On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Chris Vienneau <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: The topic was bringing over ICE graphs into Bifrost. We will not show the Bifrost graph in the first version but if you click here (https://www.fxguide.com/featured/bifrost-the-return-of-the-naiad-team-with-a-bridge-to-ice/) you can see what we showed at Siggraph last year in terms of the graph. Let me ask a very open question to Paul Doyle. Paul when people say the creators of ICE work at Fabric do you agree? Many on the Bifrost team would argue they were just as much a part of it than the hard working guys at Fabric. I think it is great that there are two companies following this path and that will only mean competition which is a good thing but I do believe there are many people who came together and not just 1-2 who drove the whole thing. ICE is a set of base function nodes built into higher order operations (compounds) with a super slick visual programming language and strong ways of querying scene data. Given we have the source code of ICE we can put in nodes that match 1 for 1 the code instead of reverse engineering it which is usually where things fall apart in terms of migration tools. We can even open this up to the fabric guys who are here so of these node types which do you use the most on a daily basis and which do not use or find need work: Array<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Array.htm> * Color<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Color.htm> * Constant<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Constant.htm> * Conversion<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Conversion.htm> * Data Access<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_DataAccess.htm> * Debugging<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Debugging.htm> * Execution<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Execution.htm> * Geometry Queries<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_GeometryQueries.htm> * Math Basic<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathBasic.htm> * Math Comparison<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathComparison.htm> * Math Logic<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathLogic.htm> * Math Matrix<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathMatrix.htm> * Math Statistics<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathStatistics.htm> * Math Trigonometry<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathTrigonometry.htm> * Math Vector<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_MathVector.htm> * Point Cloud<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_PointCloud.htm> * Rotation<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-DCAC50A6-C3FD-47D0-8F5A-6A161EBD3E68.htm> * Simulation<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/icenode_ref_Simulation.htm> * String<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/iceref_nodes_String.htm> * Topology<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-FBD0D4AB-F90F-4C2C-A3D5-2EA677678349.htm> * Crowds<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-1D883E93-17DD-4CB2-AA3D-C50A33E2F7FF.htm> * Syflex Simul<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-96B37421-0112-41FE-8255-B8D7EE37AE63.htm> * Syflex Force<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-3CD07777-CE7F-4EF9-9E5C-A1A0C35D2B14.htm> * Syflex Collision<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-9CDA70F0-F9F3-4897-8698-72A9B8878926.htm> * Syflex Constraint<http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2014/en_us/userguide/files/GUID-1D551989-2D9C-48F1-A099-8511B514B535.htm> Thx. cv/ ________________________________ From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] on behalf of Nick Martinelli [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 4:59 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: "Top List of ICE Nodes That Cover 80% of What You Do With The Toolset" I agree 100% with what everyone is saying. I would like to add that ICE isn't a point and click system, so it's impossible to give a universal list. There isn't one way to do anything, just ways that work. Two artists can have a similar result with drastically different ICE trees. Imagine that you ask two people to write an equation that equals 10. One might say 7+3 and the other might go with 40/4, both are correct, they just got there different ways. That's the beauty of ICE. It's versatility and efficiency to allow the artist to work the way they want to without sacrificing quality and production time. On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Bk <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: Bradley has expressed exactly, what I have been trying to compose over the last week. Yet better than I could. 1 Autodesk either never room the time to understand ICE, 2 or kept it under wraps in order to not let it steal the thunder from Bifrost in the future. Weird decision, as they could have used it as a taster to get people excited. 3 Or of course, there remains the possibility they are just a bit simple and confused and deserve our sympathy. Ironically, the team that actually Made ICE are onto what could be seen as "ICE version 2 standalone or in any package". Fabric Engine. (cue "binary sunset on tatooine" music) I have no doubt that the successor to ICE is the future. I do actually thing that Bifrost is heading there, but if option 3 (above) is not the case, I'd be nervous, to say the least. Because I believe Fabric is going to get in there first by a long shot. And we SI users have learnt the hard way, about how important it is to get tools into studios and pipelines first. On 15 Mar 2014, at 19:55, Mirko Jankovic <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: Bradley you nailed it with this one, and also points out what really AD system does look like.. bunch of bullet points of separate marketing ready features that looks nice on list when you showing it to sales. The matter that those separate features have little to non meaningful communications one with other... communication that actually makes workflow.. that doesn't mean much I guess. On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Bradley Gabe <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: This is what concerns me about the future for where Autodesk takes their DCC flagships. Bullet-point thinking. It's not any specific list of ICE nodes that make it so powerful and useful, rather it's how well it plays within the data structures of the rest of the application. Everyone who ever looked at ICE from the outside, without ever going into the daily battle that is production, simply saw it as a particle system (and maybe tipped their hat to it's clever ability to multiprocesses). And despite the SI community's repeated insistence ICE was far more important than that, a particle system is precisely how it was marketed by Autodesk, providing continuing evidence that Autodesk didn't know what they actually had, didn't want to listen to the people who were actually using it... or didn't care. In real estate, they say the most important things are location, location, location. In CG production, the most important things are workarounds, workarounds, workarounds. ICE has provided SI users with a highly potent, splendidly integrated, reasonably artist friendly, visual node based toolkit for discovering and developing production workarounds, without having to resort to coding for every little thing. Particle effects are merely a byproduct of the system. It was through interacting with ICE that I developed a much more profound understanding of CG data structures, an intuitive sense of how the linear algebra drives transforms, of how I could influence operators to do the things I could only imagine in times past. Every day in production is a day of experiment and discovery using ICE. Do you have any idea how empowering that feels after years of waiting for technical help from developers that never arrived? Furthermore, after years of tech experimenting and workarounds with ICE, my ability to develop non-ICE tools for animation, deformation, etc, had increased drastically. Tools that used to require a week for me to work out the math, I could develop in less than a day, because ICE had both provided me with enough practice to greatly enhance my thinking, but also because I could use it as a prototype laboratory to quickly hash out more difficult concepts, prior to sitting down to write out the code. If you're wondering why people are concerned about life without XSI, these are some pretty major reasons. You're going to have to convince us the future of node-based work in Maya/Max isn't a bullet point list of nodes for creating particle or fluid sim effects. Rather, that it's a fully developed, operator development kit, from which particles, fluids, simulations, and all kinds of production workarounds, workarounds, workarounds are possible! -Bradley Sent from my iPhone On Mar 15, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Andy Jones <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 6:41 AM, Chris Vienneau <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: Do you guys think there is a top list of nodes in ICE and compounds you all use that cover 80% of what you do with the toolset? Nope -- Nick Martinelli (201) 424 - 6518<tel:%28201%29%20424%20-%206518> www.nickMartinelli.net<http://www.nickMartinelli.net><http://www.nickMartinelli.net> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
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