Chairs, ADs,

I regret this decision. *Whatever* the results of the poll, your text below 
explicitly suggests a discrimination between voters. 

Basically, you seem to distinguish between people who are entitled to vote 
because they have supposedly participated to the stateless specification effort 
(whatever the flavour) and people who are not entitled to vote because you 
clearly assume they have not participated to the said specification effort, let 
alone the discussions.

I think this decision is a shame for the IETF precisely because of this 
discrimination.

We all perfectly know how the IETF procedures have been working for many years. 
And we all perfectly know what kind of side effect the rough consensus motto 
can sometimes lead to.

But I don't think this is a good enough reason to speculate on the degree of 
participation to the WG effort of the people who have expressed an opinion.

I, for one, never sent a comment on either the MAP or the 4rd-U stuff on this 
list. Yet, I can assure you that I have extensively discussed both approaches 
with my colleagues internally.

Does that make me ineligible to respond to this poll? I certainly don't think 
so.

I don't think anyone of us is entitled to decide who has the right to vote and 
who hasn't.

Your corrected math clearly reflect a strong consensus to (1) standardize one 
and only one approach and (2) adopt the MAP effort as a softwire WG item.

Your decision contradicts the results of this poll.

I therefore strongly encourage you to revisit your position and accept the 
results of this poll.

If you stick to this decision, you will not only do any favor to the softwire 
WG, but also to the whole IETF. 

Cheers,

Christian.


-----Message d'origine-----
De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De la part 
de Alain Durand
Envoyé : jeudi 26 avril 2012 03:41
À : [email protected] WG
Objet : [Softwires] Result from the consensus call on Map vs 4rd-U and official 
way forward

The chairs and ADs met to look at the results of the consensus call that ended 
Wednesday and decide the way forward.

First, we would like to offer a couple observations on the raw results from the 
consensus call:

- We had a number of people responding more than once, sometime with different 
email addresses.
  Having their name and affiliation in the response helped us removed those 
duplicate/triplicate/...
- Number of unique response: 75
- Question 1: 75 yes, 0 No, few  responded put both on experimental track
- Question 2: 73 MAP 2 4rd-U

This does not reflect at all the results we had in the Paris meeting (about 30 
MAP and 20 4rd-U):
a) It seems that some of the 4rd-U people who did express support for it in 
Paris when the same question was asked have not participated in this consensus 
call. 
b) the number of MAP responses seem to be inflated, we see a disproportionate 
number of response from some particular organizations. We also see a large 
number of responses coming from people who have not participated before in the 
working group. Also, it is apparent that a number of people have joined the 
mailing list for the sole purpose of expressing support for MAP.

None of the above behaviors do any favors for the working group. We do need 
participation in the official call for consensus from all the active 
participants of the working group. As we mentioned before, in such calls, 
silence is consent. Also, the inflated participation in the consensus call from 
'new' members that have never participate in the discussion before, creates 
noise that makes the results harder to read.

Furthermore, we have observed that, even during the call, the analysis of both 
solutions did continue, and missing elements on both sides have been pointed 
out. We also observed a willingness of various participants to improve those 
specs to bring them to a level where we could start a working group last call.

As a result, we have decided to approve both MAP and 4rd-U as working group 
work items.  As work items, each document can be further refined until the 
working group reaches consensus about advancing the documents for IETF review.

Because of the history of MAP and 4rd-U, we will designate independent teams of 
volunteer reviewers to advise the working group about the state of the document 
sets.  Each set will be reviewed by an independent team who are not authors of 
the MAP and 4rd-U documents. Each review team will consist of three members and 
will determine when its document set is ready for working group last call. If 
you are interested in volunteering for one of the review teams, please respond 
directly to the chairs, indicating your preference for which document to review 
if you have one. The appointment of the review teams will be entirely up to the 
chairs. Aside from these appointed reviews, the chairs would naturally 
appreciate any and all reviews provided, regardless of whether the reviewer(s) 
participate on a review team.

When the document sets are ready for working group last call, the working group 
will reconsider the question of the publication status: Proposed Standard or 
Experimental. We will try to  consider all document sets for advancement at the 
same time, but we will not allow a delay in completing one document to hold up 
the working group indefinitely. 

   - Alain & Yong, WG co-chairs
   - Ralph & Biran, ADs
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