Huh? Initially the argument to derec is zero. But for each other call,
it is m-1, where m is the reference count of some object. Reference
counts have to be positive (when an object's reference count hits zero,
it is destroyed), so m-1 is non-negative.

Marshall

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 05:21:31AM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> Does the "derec" argument pattern make sense?
> 
> As currently defined here "Calling derec(w,n), where w's reference
> count is initially m, decrements
> w's reference count by n. Then, if w has AFREC set, it calls
> derec(z,m-1) on each object referred to by z and removes the flag."
> 
> But in the examples here, n is always 0 or negative.
> 
> Wouldn't it be more understandable to instead say "Calling derec(w,n),
> where w's reference count is initially m, increments
> w's reference count by n. Then, if w has AFREC set, it calls
> derec(z,m+1) on each object referred to by z and removes the flag."
> (and then make the same changes everywhere to be consistent)?
> 
> If this does not make sense then something important is missing from
> this description.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 
> Raul
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:05 PM, chris burke <[email protected]> wrote:
> > From: *Marshall Lochbaum* <[email protected]>
> > Date: 29 April 2016 at 09:51
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >
> > I am currently working on changing J's current reference counting scheme
> > to a much more efficient and standard method.
> >
> > J stores a reference count in every object (AC(w)) indicating the number
> > of times it is referenced. The count is incremented when a copy is made
> > and decremented when one is deleted. Once the reference count drops to
> > zero, J knows the object can be freed, and does so.
> >
> > Currently, J uses an unusual recursive procedure for reference counts.
> > If a boxed array (or verb with arguments, or other object with children)
> > is copied, then the reference counts of all its children (items in
> > boxes) are incremented, and so on recursively. This makes copies of
> > composite objects take a long time.
> >
> > The typical procedure is to treat the parent/child relationship as a
> > single reference. Thus the reference counts of children are incremented
> > when they are added to the parent, and decremented when the parent is
> > deleted, and otherwise not changed. To copy a composite object, simply
> > increment its reference count, and to delete, decrement it. I am
> > currently trying to convince the J engine to use this procedure.
> >
> > The hangup is another idiosyncratic J feature, which in contrast to the
> > weird reference count scheme is actually useful. J maintains a stack of
> > local nouns, whose function (but not implementation) is equivalent to
> > that of C's stack. Any time an object is created, a pointer to it is
> > pushed to the stack. Thus J functions can ignore all the reference count
> > arithmetic (which from experience I know is quite painful) while using
> > objects. Instead, they call PROLOG, which saves the location of the
> > beginning of the stack, before doing anything, and EPILOG(z), where z is
> > the value to be returned, after everything. EPILOG copies z, deletes
> > everything added to the stack since PROLOG was called, and returns z.
> >
> > A complication arises if z is a composite object. In this case we want
> > to avoid deleting any of z's children, despite the fact that they may be
> > on the stack. In the current paradigm this is automatic: on copying z,
> > all of its children are also copied, and deleting the copies on the
> > stack leaves those copies. But if incrementing the reference count is
> > not recursive, this doesn't happen, and the children are deleted,
> > leaving z with dangling pointers.
> >
> > In a sense, the problem arises because when verbs connect z to its
> > children, they don't bother to inform the children. The reference from z
> > to its children cannot be reflected in their reference counts. So the
> > correct fix might be to increment the reference counts as they are added
> > to z. This is not feasible: the places where children are added to
> > objects just look like assignments, and are impossible to detect
> > automatically.
> >
> > There is a workaround: EPILOG should do the pointer-incrementing job for
> > us. So rather than a simple copy of z, it actually goes through all of
> > z's children and increments pointers. Specifically, it should increment
> > the descendents which are children of objects on the stack. This
> > requires an extra flag: AFSTK, which indicates whether an object is on
> > the stack.
> >
> > I have implemented all the above, and am still getting bugs. I think
> > that I have made all the necessary architecture changes, and that the
> > remainder is just a few spots that relied in some way on the old system,
> > but it's impossible to be sure how much work there is left to do. I will
> > update on future progress.
> >
> > Marshall
> >
> > ----------
> > From: *Henry Rich* <[email protected]>
> > Date: 29 April 2016 at 12:40
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >
> > Your workaround seems sound.  Let me know what you find the problems are.
> >
> > To see if I understand the situation, would this work: keep a long long
> > counter of PROLOGs, giving each PROLOG a unique number; store the current
> > number in the block header when a block is created.  Then at EPILOG,
> > increment use-counts in the children of Z that have the stored value
> > matching the current number.  This would add 8 bytes to the header, so I
> > don't like it, but it would keep you from having to match children-of-z
> > with children-of-the-noun-stack.
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > ----------
> > From: *Henry Rich* <[email protected]>
> > Date: 29 April 2016 at 17:18
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >
> > Is one way to think of this problem that the use-counts in z need to be the
> > old recursive style, so that they can be freed by the epilogue?
> >
> > If so, a solution would be to traverse z, converting its use-counts to
> > recursive style (and incrementing - I guess that's what you referred to as
> > 'copying'); decrement them in recursive style; then traverse again,
> > converting back to nonrecursive style.
> >
> > Would that work?
> >
> > If so, a more elegant solution would be to have two use counts: a count
> > that has yet to be propagated to descendants, and a count that has been
> > propagated.  The use-count routines would handle these correctly.  EPILOG
> > would traverse to push unpropagated use-count to descendants, and then free
> > the blocks as before.  The conversion back to nonrecursive style would not
> > be required, because both styles would coexist.
> >
> > Implementation: I have my eye on the AF() field, which seems to have just 4
> > bits assigned - is that right?  Reserve 6 bits for flags, and use the upper
> > bits for the unpropagated usecount.  At the same time, make the
> > corresponding change to AC(), leaving 6 bits of flags and the rest
> > propagated usecount.
> >
> >
> > Henry
> >
> >
> > On 4/29/2016 12:51 PM, Marshall Lochbaum wrote:
> >
> > ----------
> > From: *Marshall Lochbaum* <[email protected]>
> > Date: 29 April 2016 at 21:56
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >
> > I'm not sure whether the first solution would work. Converting between
> > the two styles is simple enough--recursively add or remove the reference
> > count of the parent from all of its descendents--but the overall
> > procedure is kind of complicated, and I still don't know exactly how the
> > stack is used all of the time.
> >
> > I don't think that nouns are ever copied while on the stack, just used
> > without regard for their reference count. So the second method is the
> > same as mine, but mine combines the two counts.
> >
> > I assume you mean AFLAG for the field. There are 17 extra flags, defined
> > only for verbs, further on in jtype.h ("type V flag values"). These end
> > at 2^24, leaving the top 32 bits untouched. But given how quickly we
> > seem to be proposing new flags, it may not be a good idea to use those.
> >
> > Marshall
> >
> > ----------
> > From: *Henry Rich* <[email protected]>
> > Date: 30 April 2016 at 04:34
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >
> > [I thought the V flags were for the flag field of the V struct, not the A
> > struct.]
> >
> > I have better ideas about this problem now.
> >
> > First, though, let me say this.  When there were still problems after you
> > put in the nonrecursive use-counts, and you suspected some code that relied
> > on the old methods: that's almost a fatal problem, isn't it?  Because we
> > can't hope to find all the old code, and would never want to release until
> > we were sure we had.  We need a design that guarantees compatibility.
> >
> >
> >
> > Here's what you have learned: execution freely allocates blocks, putting
> > them on the stack, and combines them promiscuously, producing objects, one
> > of which becomes the result z for use in EPILOG(z).  The objects produced
> > by execution all have the old recursive use-counts, and thus must be freed
> > using the recursive method.
> >
> > Yet we would very much like objects to use nonrecursive use-counts.  This
> > suggests the following design:
> >
> > Blocks are either nonrecursive or semirecursive and flagged to indicate
> > which kind they are.  The use-count of a nonrecursive block has not fully
> > been included in the use-counts of its descendants, and need not be, while
> > the use-count of a semirecursive block has been propagated to descendants.
> >
> > The descendants of a nonrecursive block are all nonrecursive.  The
> > descendants of a semirecursive block can be either type.
> > Incrementing/decrementing the use count involves traversing the tree, but
> > the traversal can be terminated when a nonrecursive block is encountered.
> >
> > Nonrecursive blocks are created ONLY by EPILOG(z).  After the stack has
> > been freed, the result z is traversed to transform it from semirecursive to
> > nonrecursive.
> >
> > Important lemma (please check!): No block pointed to by the stack will ever
> > be contained in a nonrecursive block. Proof: All blocks are allocated as
> > semirecursive, and execution only combines these into larger semirecursive
> > aggregates. (replacing-in-place is not implemented for indirect data types
> > - yet).
> >
> >
> >
> > That's the design.  It's saying that before EPILOG, anything goes.
> > Whatever the Old Code produces is OK.  At EPILOG() time, the surviving z is
> > then put into efficient nonrecursive form, after the stack has been taken
> > care of.
> >
> > Examples:
> >
> > J sentence:   a (; <@(+/)"1) b
> >
> > <@(+/)"1 will run on b to produce its result, in semirecursive form.
> > EPILOG will turn this into the nonrecursive result, call it c.
> >
> > a starts out nonrecursive (if it is an indirect type), because it is the
> > result of some earlier EPILOG.
> >
> > a ; c   will join the two nonrecursive values into a semirecursive result.
> > But traversing that result during EPILOG will be fast, because the
> > traversal may stop after one level of recursion.
> >
> > J sentence: ({. a) ; 2 {:: b
> >
> > (2 {:: b) selects the subtree of b (and presumably increments its use
> > count, but that's in the Old Code and we don't have to worry about it).
> > This subtree will most likely be nonrecursive. Depending on the type of a,
> > the result of ({. a) is either a new semirecursive block or the address of
> > the nonrecursive subtree of a.  These are joined by ; into a semirecursive
> > result, which again can be traversed quickly.  The key point is that no
> > block on the stack can ever appear inside a nonrecursive block and thus
> > cannot cause trouble when the stack is freed.
> >
> >
> >
> > This design needs a flag NONRECURSIVE, but it does not need the ONSTACK
> > flag.
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > ----------
> > From: *Marshall Lochbaum* <[email protected]>
> > Date: 30 April 2016 at 16:43
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >
> > I think this is the scheme I was grasping for. The recursive flag (I
> > called it AFREC) is just a better name for the stack flag--in fact
> > objects are returned to the stack after being pulled off in EPILOG, so
> > that name is wrong. The major change is realizing that ra and fa (copy
> > and delete copy) should work differently (recursively) on objects with
> > the flag set.
> >
> > It seems to work, but there are problems with the end of jtxdefn, which
> > has its own variant of EPILOG (jtxdefn is the only such function, as I
> > have verified by checking for uses of tpush outside m.c). This epilog
> > frees the symbol table for local variables, but it seems this is done
> > incorrectly as it causes invalid reads later on. It shouldn't take too
> > long to fix.
> >
> > And you're right about the V flags versus A flags. The perils of untyped
> > data...
> >
> > Marshall
> >
> > ----------
> > From: *Henry Rich* <[email protected]>
> > Date: 30 April 2016 at 16:57
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >
> > That sounds promising.  I think we're in agreement.
> >
> > Does EPILOG(z) put anything back onto the stack except for z?  [I'm just
> > trying to make sure I keep up with how it works (but trying to avoid
> > looking through the code).]  If it does, do you have to do anything
> > different when z is eventually freed? Not that there's a problem, since you
> > have the recursive flag to tell you what to do.
> >
> > I guess I'd better understand this code if I'm going to talk about it.  I
> > would look in PROLOG, EPILOG, and where else to see how the stack is used?
> >
> >
> > If we wanted to save 8 bytes in the header, we could move those A flags
> > into the low bits of the use count.  Not now, but someday...
> >
> >
> > If we couldn't deal with untyped data, we wouldn't be working in J, would
> > we?
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > ----------
> > From: *Marshall Lochbaum* <[email protected]>
> > Date: 30 April 2016 at 17:22
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >
> > EPILOG(z) pushes z onto the stack (with tpush). Currently, this is
> > recursive, so it pushes all of z's descendents as well. In the new
> > paradigm, it isn't, and only z is added.
> >
> > PROLOG and EPILOG are very simple:
> > #define PROLOG          I _ttop=jt->tbase+jt->ttop
> > #define EPILOG(z)       R gc(z,_ttop)
> > A jtgc (J jt,A w,I old){ra(w); tpop(old); R tpush(w);}
> >
> > where ra copies w and tpush(w) adds it to the stack. tpop(old) pops
> > (with fr, which is not recursive) all the items after index old from the
> > stack. In the new version I have replace tpush with a different function
> > that derecursivinates the argument, then pushes it.
> >
> > Since I've written out most of it, I will probably make my comments on
> > memory management into a complete guide and post it somewhere soon.
> >
> > Marshall
> >
> > ----------
> > From: *Henry Rich* <[email protected]>
> > Date: 1 May 2016 at 07:33
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >
> > I think this works, but I believe my lemma from last post is flawed (more
> > below).  First, some advice _de profundis_.
> >
> > I urge you to write out your comments right now, before writing any (more)
> > code, as a way to prove the design before coding.  This should take the
> > form of a short paper, included as commentary in the code, in which you
> > describe the principles of the design, the actions that can be performed,
> > and the assertions that can be made about the state of the system at
> > various times.  Then, give a passably rigorous proof of the assertions.
> >
> > This is a good way to design, and I have the scars to prove it.  Many times
> > I have had to tear up a design because the attempt to formally prove
> > correctness turned up flaws.  Not only will you save coding time, you will
> > learn where you need to spend your testing effort.
> >
> > Of course, all who come after you will be grateful for the commentary.  But
> > you yourself will get your greatest benefit from it the earlier you write
> > it.  Post it here by all means when it's done, but makes sure it gets into
> > the code.
> >
> >
> > Now, about those memory blocks.  Here's my current understanding.
> >
> > All allocated blocks bear the curse of Adam: burdened with Original Sin,
> > the time of their doom is marked on the stack at the moment of their
> > birth.  Their use-count is 1, but that is borrowed time.  After their
> > threescore and ten, they return, dust to dust, to the memory pool.
> >
> > All, that is, except one elect from each generation.  This virtuous block,
> > z, is selected to carry the faith to the next generation.  The use-counts
> > of z are incremented, expunging the Original Sin, and z survives the
> > reckoning.  But only temporarily: z is then put back onto the stack,
> > reinstating the Original Sin, and z's added life is possibly for just one
> > generation, possibly for more, according to the will of the Lord.
> >
> > When z is put back onto the stack, it is as a born-again nonrecursive
> > block, in which the top block of z answers for all its descendants.
> >
> > Here is the question: are we sure z is up to the task?  I thought last time
> > I had proved Yes, that z could not contain blocks that are on the stack
> > slated for destruction.  But now I see that that is false: you could have
> > this scenario:
> >
> > Call level 1: PROLOG; create block A; pass block A into call level 2
> > Call level 2: PROLOG; create block B, an indirect block that points to A;
> > EPILOG(B)
> >
> > The stack now points to A and B; B is marked nonrecursive, but what about A?
> >
> > I think the answer is that it has to be OK, because Call level 2 must have
> > incremented the use-count of A when it incorporated A into B.  That is, if
> > it didn't the system wouldn't work to begin with, so we don't have to be
> > concerned with the details of how that happens.
> >
> > This suggests a corollary concerning the nonrecursive flag: it indicates
> > 'this block has been through EPILOG and had its use-counts incremented.'
> > That inoculates it against having itself OR ANY COMPONENT destroyed before
> > its time.
> >
> > This scenario imposes a requirement on the derecursivinative procedure: it
> > must not make any attempt to collect use-counts and forward them to higher
> > levels.  One might think it clever to notice that all the use-counts of the
> > children of a node are 2, and pull one use-count into the parent.  It
> > _would_ be clever, except that it would leave the child exposed to
> > destruction from the stack or destruction of a name.
> >
> > [You should include the discussion of the previous paragraph, including the
> > issues, decisions, and alternatives, in your design document.  It will help
> > readers greatly to understand the issues involved.  Also include a proof of
> > the OR ANY COMPONENT statement two paragraphs back.]
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > ----------
> > From: *Marshall Lochbaum* <[email protected]>
> > Date: 5 May 2016 at 12:02
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >
> > The problems I thought were due to the not-EPILOG in jtxdefn were
> > actually a result of a change I made to debug: reducing PLIM (and PLIML,
> > its logarithm) in m.c so that more objects would be allocated on the C
> > stack rather than J's pool. This makes more memory leaks detectable with
> > a tool like valgrind, since leaked objects in the pool are still seen as
> > reachable. Unfortunately and for reasons I don't understand, it also
> > introduces a number of bugs.
> >
> > The new memory scheme now passes a lot of tests, but fails a few.
> > Continuing investigation.
> >
> > Marshall
> >
> > ----------
> > From: *Marshall Lochbaum* <[email protected]>
> > Date: 5 May 2016 at 13:52
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >
> > Here's the formal(ish) proof that managing memory derecursivinatively
> > doesn't break anything that wasn't already broken. There are two
> > assumptions about current the J behavior, which are collected at the
> > end.
> >
> > Definition:
> > A referrer is either a J object or the stack. An object references
> > another object if that object would be visited by a call to traverse
> > (with a non-recursive function as its argument). The stack is a list of
> > pointers; it references each object it points to. A referrer may
> > reference an object multiple times if it is visited multiple times by
> > traverse or appears multiple times in the stack. The list of objects it
> > refers to are its referents.
> >
> > Code specification:
> > Every object is created with AFREC set and reference count zero. Calling
> > EPILOG(z) copies z, then pops from the stack, then calls derec(z,0).
> > Calling derec(w,n), where w's reference count is initially m, decrements
> > w's reference count by n. Then, if w has AFREC set, it calls
> > derec(z,m-1) on each object referred to by z and removes the flag.
> > There is no other way to remove the AFREC flag, and no way to add the
> > AFREC flag at all.
> >
> > derec(z,0) is equivalent to derec1(z), which uses more traversals:
> > derec1(z) does nothing if z does not have AFREC set, and otherwise
> > decrements the counts of each of z's descendants by one less than z's
> > reference count, then recurses.
> >
> > Invariant 1:
> > At all times except during calls to derec, an object z that refers to an
> > object marked AFREC is also marked AFREC. Equivalently, descendants of
> > non-recursive objects are never recursive.
> > Assume: Descendants are added only to objects not marked AFREC.
> > Proof: When z is created, it has no descendants, so the property holds.
> > Three events can potentially falsify the invariant:
> > - A new descendant is added to z. If z does not have AFREC set, then
> >   descendants cannot be added to it, by the assumption. If it does have
> >   AFREC set, the invariant holds regardless.
> > - The AFREC flag is added to a descendant of z. This is impossible.
> > - The AFREC flag is removed from z--that is, derec is called on z, and
> >   AFREC is set for z. In this case, derec removes the flag and recurses.
> >   But then the flag will be removed for each descendant as well, and the
> >   invariant still holds.
> >
> > Invariant 2:
> > The reference count of an object is the sum over all referrers (with
> > multiplicity) of either 1, if the referrer is the stack or an object not
> > marked AFREC, or that object's reference count, if the referrer is an
> > object marked AFREC.
> > Except during the execution of memory functions, this invariant holds
> > - At all times for objects not marked AFREC, and
> > - When EPILOG(z) is called for objects z marked AFREC and their
> >   descendants.
> > We assume the invariant in the second case. If not, the old system was
> > broken.
> > We now show that derec1(z), equivalent to the main work of EPILOG
> > derec(z,0), does not falsify the invariant. We omit the proof that other
> > memory operations (ra, fa, tpop) satisfy it, as it is simple in each
> > case.
> > - If AFREC is not set, then derec1(z) does nothing by definition.
> > - If AFREC is set, then derec1(z) removes the AFREC flag from z, which
> >   decreases the corresponding terms in the reference formula from m to
> >   1, where m is the reference count of z. It also decrements the counts
> >   of z's descendants, to the same effect. Note that the formula counts
> >   referrers with multiplicity, and traverse does the same. Then derec1
> >   recurses, which maintains our invariant proveded the rest of the
> >   function does as well.
> >
> >
> > So, our assumptions about J's code base are:
> >
> > 1. Descendants are only added to objects marked AFREC.
> > This could be violated by some things like in-place amend. If it is, it
> > will break invariant 1, which is easy to test for in derec by doing a
> > full recurse. The fix is to make sure each addition calls derec on the
> > added objects.
> >
> > 2. When EPILOG(z) is called, z and its descendants obey the reference
> >    count formula.
> > Mostly, this depends on J working already. The only way the changes can
> > break it is if a function does strange memory stuff (not fa or ra) to an
> > object not marked AFREC. But that's not really out of the question.
> >
> > There are about 40 failing tests right now, and they're probably due to
> > specific functions that break one of the invariants. Hopefully there are
> > a lot fewer than 40 functions causing these failures.
> >
> > Marshall
> >
> > ----------
> > From: *Henry Rich* <[email protected]>
> > Date: 10 May 2016 at 16:28
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >
> > Just starting to look at this.
> >
> > Creating a block with AFREC set and reference count 0 may be trouble.  I
> > see in places where the code checks for AC(w)>1 to indicate that a block
> > has been put into a boxed structure.  That would not work in the new system.
> >
> > My suggestion: put AFREC in the low bit of AC, and go through all
> > occurrences of AC, replacing them with a macro to extract the right value
> > from AC-plus-flag.
> >
> > Henry
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
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