Oops, my mistake - I confused m and n.

Thanks,

-- 
Raul


On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Marshall Lochbaum
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Huh? Initially the argument to derec is zero. But for each other call,
> it is m-1, where m is the reference count of some object. Reference
> counts have to be positive (when an object's reference count hits zero,
> it is destroyed), so m-1 is non-negative.
>
> Marshall
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 05:21:31AM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
>> Does the "derec" argument pattern make sense?
>>
>> As currently defined here "Calling derec(w,n), where w's reference
>> count is initially m, decrements
>> w's reference count by n. Then, if w has AFREC set, it calls
>> derec(z,m-1) on each object referred to by z and removes the flag."
>>
>> But in the examples here, n is always 0 or negative.
>>
>> Wouldn't it be more understandable to instead say "Calling derec(w,n),
>> where w's reference count is initially m, increments
>> w's reference count by n. Then, if w has AFREC set, it calls
>> derec(z,m+1) on each object referred to by z and removes the flag."
>> (and then make the same changes everywhere to be consistent)?
>>
>> If this does not make sense then something important is missing from
>> this description.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --
>> Raul
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:05 PM, chris burke <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > From: *Marshall Lochbaum* <[email protected]>
>> > Date: 29 April 2016 at 09:51
>> > To: [email protected]
>> >
>> >
>> > I am currently working on changing J's current reference counting scheme
>> > to a much more efficient and standard method.
>> >
>> > J stores a reference count in every object (AC(w)) indicating the number
>> > of times it is referenced. The count is incremented when a copy is made
>> > and decremented when one is deleted. Once the reference count drops to
>> > zero, J knows the object can be freed, and does so.
>> >
>> > Currently, J uses an unusual recursive procedure for reference counts.
>> > If a boxed array (or verb with arguments, or other object with children)
>> > is copied, then the reference counts of all its children (items in
>> > boxes) are incremented, and so on recursively. This makes copies of
>> > composite objects take a long time.
>> >
>> > The typical procedure is to treat the parent/child relationship as a
>> > single reference. Thus the reference counts of children are incremented
>> > when they are added to the parent, and decremented when the parent is
>> > deleted, and otherwise not changed. To copy a composite object, simply
>> > increment its reference count, and to delete, decrement it. I am
>> > currently trying to convince the J engine to use this procedure.
>> >
>> > The hangup is another idiosyncratic J feature, which in contrast to the
>> > weird reference count scheme is actually useful. J maintains a stack of
>> > local nouns, whose function (but not implementation) is equivalent to
>> > that of C's stack. Any time an object is created, a pointer to it is
>> > pushed to the stack. Thus J functions can ignore all the reference count
>> > arithmetic (which from experience I know is quite painful) while using
>> > objects. Instead, they call PROLOG, which saves the location of the
>> > beginning of the stack, before doing anything, and EPILOG(z), where z is
>> > the value to be returned, after everything. EPILOG copies z, deletes
>> > everything added to the stack since PROLOG was called, and returns z.
>> >
>> > A complication arises if z is a composite object. In this case we want
>> > to avoid deleting any of z's children, despite the fact that they may be
>> > on the stack. In the current paradigm this is automatic: on copying z,
>> > all of its children are also copied, and deleting the copies on the
>> > stack leaves those copies. But if incrementing the reference count is
>> > not recursive, this doesn't happen, and the children are deleted,
>> > leaving z with dangling pointers.
>> >
>> > In a sense, the problem arises because when verbs connect z to its
>> > children, they don't bother to inform the children. The reference from z
>> > to its children cannot be reflected in their reference counts. So the
>> > correct fix might be to increment the reference counts as they are added
>> > to z. This is not feasible: the places where children are added to
>> > objects just look like assignments, and are impossible to detect
>> > automatically.
>> >
>> > There is a workaround: EPILOG should do the pointer-incrementing job for
>> > us. So rather than a simple copy of z, it actually goes through all of
>> > z's children and increments pointers. Specifically, it should increment
>> > the descendents which are children of objects on the stack. This
>> > requires an extra flag: AFSTK, which indicates whether an object is on
>> > the stack.
>> >
>> > I have implemented all the above, and am still getting bugs. I think
>> > that I have made all the necessary architecture changes, and that the
>> > remainder is just a few spots that relied in some way on the old system,
>> > but it's impossible to be sure how much work there is left to do. I will
>> > update on future progress.
>> >
>> > Marshall
>> >
>> > ----------
>> > From: *Henry Rich* <[email protected]>
>> > Date: 29 April 2016 at 12:40
>> > To: [email protected]
>> >
>> >
>> > Your workaround seems sound.  Let me know what you find the problems are.
>> >
>> > To see if I understand the situation, would this work: keep a long long
>> > counter of PROLOGs, giving each PROLOG a unique number; store the current
>> > number in the block header when a block is created.  Then at EPILOG,
>> > increment use-counts in the children of Z that have the stored value
>> > matching the current number.  This would add 8 bytes to the header, so I
>> > don't like it, but it would keep you from having to match children-of-z
>> > with children-of-the-noun-stack.
>> >
>> > Henry
>> >
>> > ----------
>> > From: *Henry Rich* <[email protected]>
>> > Date: 29 April 2016 at 17:18
>> > To: [email protected]
>> >
>> >
>> > Is one way to think of this problem that the use-counts in z need to be the
>> > old recursive style, so that they can be freed by the epilogue?
>> >
>> > If so, a solution would be to traverse z, converting its use-counts to
>> > recursive style (and incrementing - I guess that's what you referred to as
>> > 'copying'); decrement them in recursive style; then traverse again,
>> > converting back to nonrecursive style.
>> >
>> > Would that work?
>> >
>> > If so, a more elegant solution would be to have two use counts: a count
>> > that has yet to be propagated to descendants, and a count that has been
>> > propagated.  The use-count routines would handle these correctly.  EPILOG
>> > would traverse to push unpropagated use-count to descendants, and then free
>> > the blocks as before.  The conversion back to nonrecursive style would not
>> > be required, because both styles would coexist.
>> >
>> > Implementation: I have my eye on the AF() field, which seems to have just 4
>> > bits assigned - is that right?  Reserve 6 bits for flags, and use the upper
>> > bits for the unpropagated usecount.  At the same time, make the
>> > corresponding change to AC(), leaving 6 bits of flags and the rest
>> > propagated usecount.
>> >
>> >
>> > Henry
>> >
>> >
>> > On 4/29/2016 12:51 PM, Marshall Lochbaum wrote:
>> >
>> > ----------
>> > From: *Marshall Lochbaum* <[email protected]>
>> > Date: 29 April 2016 at 21:56
>> > To: [email protected]
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm not sure whether the first solution would work. Converting between
>> > the two styles is simple enough--recursively add or remove the reference
>> > count of the parent from all of its descendents--but the overall
>> > procedure is kind of complicated, and I still don't know exactly how the
>> > stack is used all of the time.
>> >
>> > I don't think that nouns are ever copied while on the stack, just used
>> > without regard for their reference count. So the second method is the
>> > same as mine, but mine combines the two counts.
>> >
>> > I assume you mean AFLAG for the field. There are 17 extra flags, defined
>> > only for verbs, further on in jtype.h ("type V flag values"). These end
>> > at 2^24, leaving the top 32 bits untouched. But given how quickly we
>> > seem to be proposing new flags, it may not be a good idea to use those.
>> >
>> > Marshall
>> >
>> > ----------
>> > From: *Henry Rich* <[email protected]>
>> > Date: 30 April 2016 at 04:34
>> > To: [email protected]
>> >
>> >
>> > [I thought the V flags were for the flag field of the V struct, not the A
>> > struct.]
>> >
>> > I have better ideas about this problem now.
>> >
>> > First, though, let me say this.  When there were still problems after you
>> > put in the nonrecursive use-counts, and you suspected some code that relied
>> > on the old methods: that's almost a fatal problem, isn't it?  Because we
>> > can't hope to find all the old code, and would never want to release until
>> > we were sure we had.  We need a design that guarantees compatibility.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Here's what you have learned: execution freely allocates blocks, putting
>> > them on the stack, and combines them promiscuously, producing objects, one
>> > of which becomes the result z for use in EPILOG(z).  The objects produced
>> > by execution all have the old recursive use-counts, and thus must be freed
>> > using the recursive method.
>> >
>> > Yet we would very much like objects to use nonrecursive use-counts.  This
>> > suggests the following design:
>> >
>> > Blocks are either nonrecursive or semirecursive and flagged to indicate
>> > which kind they are.  The use-count of a nonrecursive block has not fully
>> > been included in the use-counts of its descendants, and need not be, while
>> > the use-count of a semirecursive block has been propagated to descendants.
>> >
>> > The descendants of a nonrecursive block are all nonrecursive.  The
>> > descendants of a semirecursive block can be either type.
>> > Incrementing/decrementing the use count involves traversing the tree, but
>> > the traversal can be terminated when a nonrecursive block is encountered.
>> >
>> > Nonrecursive blocks are created ONLY by EPILOG(z).  After the stack has
>> > been freed, the result z is traversed to transform it from semirecursive to
>> > nonrecursive.
>> >
>> > Important lemma (please check!): No block pointed to by the stack will ever
>> > be contained in a nonrecursive block. Proof: All blocks are allocated as
>> > semirecursive, and execution only combines these into larger semirecursive
>> > aggregates. (replacing-in-place is not implemented for indirect data types
>> > - yet).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > That's the design.  It's saying that before EPILOG, anything goes.
>> > Whatever the Old Code produces is OK.  At EPILOG() time, the surviving z is
>> > then put into efficient nonrecursive form, after the stack has been taken
>> > care of.
>> >
>> > Examples:
>> >
>> > J sentence:   a (; <@(+/)"1) b
>> >
>> > <@(+/)"1 will run on b to produce its result, in semirecursive form.
>> > EPILOG will turn this into the nonrecursive result, call it c.
>> >
>> > a starts out nonrecursive (if it is an indirect type), because it is the
>> > result of some earlier EPILOG.
>> >
>> > a ; c   will join the two nonrecursive values into a semirecursive result.
>> > But traversing that result during EPILOG will be fast, because the
>> > traversal may stop after one level of recursion.
>> >
>> > J sentence: ({. a) ; 2 {:: b
>> >
>> > (2 {:: b) selects the subtree of b (and presumably increments its use
>> > count, but that's in the Old Code and we don't have to worry about it).
>> > This subtree will most likely be nonrecursive. Depending on the type of a,
>> > the result of ({. a) is either a new semirecursive block or the address of
>> > the nonrecursive subtree of a.  These are joined by ; into a semirecursive
>> > result, which again can be traversed quickly.  The key point is that no
>> > block on the stack can ever appear inside a nonrecursive block and thus
>> > cannot cause trouble when the stack is freed.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > This design needs a flag NONRECURSIVE, but it does not need the ONSTACK
>> > flag.
>> >
>> > Henry
>> >
>> > ----------
>> > From: *Marshall Lochbaum* <[email protected]>
>> > Date: 30 April 2016 at 16:43
>> > To: [email protected]
>> >
>> >
>> > I think this is the scheme I was grasping for. The recursive flag (I
>> > called it AFREC) is just a better name for the stack flag--in fact
>> > objects are returned to the stack after being pulled off in EPILOG, so
>> > that name is wrong. The major change is realizing that ra and fa (copy
>> > and delete copy) should work differently (recursively) on objects with
>> > the flag set.
>> >
>> > It seems to work, but there are problems with the end of jtxdefn, which
>> > has its own variant of EPILOG (jtxdefn is the only such function, as I
>> > have verified by checking for uses of tpush outside m.c). This epilog
>> > frees the symbol table for local variables, but it seems this is done
>> > incorrectly as it causes invalid reads later on. It shouldn't take too
>> > long to fix.
>> >
>> > And you're right about the V flags versus A flags. The perils of untyped
>> > data...
>> >
>> > Marshall
>> >
>> > ----------
>> > From: *Henry Rich* <[email protected]>
>> > Date: 30 April 2016 at 16:57
>> > To: [email protected]
>> >
>> >
>> > That sounds promising.  I think we're in agreement.
>> >
>> > Does EPILOG(z) put anything back onto the stack except for z?  [I'm just
>> > trying to make sure I keep up with how it works (but trying to avoid
>> > looking through the code).]  If it does, do you have to do anything
>> > different when z is eventually freed? Not that there's a problem, since you
>> > have the recursive flag to tell you what to do.
>> >
>> > I guess I'd better understand this code if I'm going to talk about it.  I
>> > would look in PROLOG, EPILOG, and where else to see how the stack is used?
>> >
>> >
>> > If we wanted to save 8 bytes in the header, we could move those A flags
>> > into the low bits of the use count.  Not now, but someday...
>> >
>> >
>> > If we couldn't deal with untyped data, we wouldn't be working in J, would
>> > we?
>> >
>> > Henry
>> >
>> > ----------
>> > From: *Marshall Lochbaum* <[email protected]>
>> > Date: 30 April 2016 at 17:22
>> > To: [email protected]
>> >
>> >
>> > EPILOG(z) pushes z onto the stack (with tpush). Currently, this is
>> > recursive, so it pushes all of z's descendents as well. In the new
>> > paradigm, it isn't, and only z is added.
>> >
>> > PROLOG and EPILOG are very simple:
>> > #define PROLOG          I _ttop=jt->tbase+jt->ttop
>> > #define EPILOG(z)       R gc(z,_ttop)
>> > A jtgc (J jt,A w,I old){ra(w); tpop(old); R tpush(w);}
>> >
>> > where ra copies w and tpush(w) adds it to the stack. tpop(old) pops
>> > (with fr, which is not recursive) all the items after index old from the
>> > stack. In the new version I have replace tpush with a different function
>> > that derecursivinates the argument, then pushes it.
>> >
>> > Since I've written out most of it, I will probably make my comments on
>> > memory management into a complete guide and post it somewhere soon.
>> >
>> > Marshall
>> >
>> > ----------
>> > From: *Henry Rich* <[email protected]>
>> > Date: 1 May 2016 at 07:33
>> > To: [email protected]
>> >
>> >
>> > I think this works, but I believe my lemma from last post is flawed (more
>> > below).  First, some advice _de profundis_.
>> >
>> > I urge you to write out your comments right now, before writing any (more)
>> > code, as a way to prove the design before coding.  This should take the
>> > form of a short paper, included as commentary in the code, in which you
>> > describe the principles of the design, the actions that can be performed,
>> > and the assertions that can be made about the state of the system at
>> > various times.  Then, give a passably rigorous proof of the assertions.
>> >
>> > This is a good way to design, and I have the scars to prove it.  Many times
>> > I have had to tear up a design because the attempt to formally prove
>> > correctness turned up flaws.  Not only will you save coding time, you will
>> > learn where you need to spend your testing effort.
>> >
>> > Of course, all who come after you will be grateful for the commentary.  But
>> > you yourself will get your greatest benefit from it the earlier you write
>> > it.  Post it here by all means when it's done, but makes sure it gets into
>> > the code.
>> >
>> >
>> > Now, about those memory blocks.  Here's my current understanding.
>> >
>> > All allocated blocks bear the curse of Adam: burdened with Original Sin,
>> > the time of their doom is marked on the stack at the moment of their
>> > birth.  Their use-count is 1, but that is borrowed time.  After their
>> > threescore and ten, they return, dust to dust, to the memory pool.
>> >
>> > All, that is, except one elect from each generation.  This virtuous block,
>> > z, is selected to carry the faith to the next generation.  The use-counts
>> > of z are incremented, expunging the Original Sin, and z survives the
>> > reckoning.  But only temporarily: z is then put back onto the stack,
>> > reinstating the Original Sin, and z's added life is possibly for just one
>> > generation, possibly for more, according to the will of the Lord.
>> >
>> > When z is put back onto the stack, it is as a born-again nonrecursive
>> > block, in which the top block of z answers for all its descendants.
>> >
>> > Here is the question: are we sure z is up to the task?  I thought last time
>> > I had proved Yes, that z could not contain blocks that are on the stack
>> > slated for destruction.  But now I see that that is false: you could have
>> > this scenario:
>> >
>> > Call level 1: PROLOG; create block A; pass block A into call level 2
>> > Call level 2: PROLOG; create block B, an indirect block that points to A;
>> > EPILOG(B)
>> >
>> > The stack now points to A and B; B is marked nonrecursive, but what about 
>> > A?
>> >
>> > I think the answer is that it has to be OK, because Call level 2 must have
>> > incremented the use-count of A when it incorporated A into B.  That is, if
>> > it didn't the system wouldn't work to begin with, so we don't have to be
>> > concerned with the details of how that happens.
>> >
>> > This suggests a corollary concerning the nonrecursive flag: it indicates
>> > 'this block has been through EPILOG and had its use-counts incremented.'
>> > That inoculates it against having itself OR ANY COMPONENT destroyed before
>> > its time.
>> >
>> > This scenario imposes a requirement on the derecursivinative procedure: it
>> > must not make any attempt to collect use-counts and forward them to higher
>> > levels.  One might think it clever to notice that all the use-counts of the
>> > children of a node are 2, and pull one use-count into the parent.  It
>> > _would_ be clever, except that it would leave the child exposed to
>> > destruction from the stack or destruction of a name.
>> >
>> > [You should include the discussion of the previous paragraph, including the
>> > issues, decisions, and alternatives, in your design document.  It will help
>> > readers greatly to understand the issues involved.  Also include a proof of
>> > the OR ANY COMPONENT statement two paragraphs back.]
>> >
>> > Henry
>> >
>> > ----------
>> > From: *Marshall Lochbaum* <[email protected]>
>> > Date: 5 May 2016 at 12:02
>> > To: [email protected]
>> >
>> >
>> > The problems I thought were due to the not-EPILOG in jtxdefn were
>> > actually a result of a change I made to debug: reducing PLIM (and PLIML,
>> > its logarithm) in m.c so that more objects would be allocated on the C
>> > stack rather than J's pool. This makes more memory leaks detectable with
>> > a tool like valgrind, since leaked objects in the pool are still seen as
>> > reachable. Unfortunately and for reasons I don't understand, it also
>> > introduces a number of bugs.
>> >
>> > The new memory scheme now passes a lot of tests, but fails a few.
>> > Continuing investigation.
>> >
>> > Marshall
>> >
>> > ----------
>> > From: *Marshall Lochbaum* <[email protected]>
>> > Date: 5 May 2016 at 13:52
>> > To: [email protected]
>> >
>> >
>> > Here's the formal(ish) proof that managing memory derecursivinatively
>> > doesn't break anything that wasn't already broken. There are two
>> > assumptions about current the J behavior, which are collected at the
>> > end.
>> >
>> > Definition:
>> > A referrer is either a J object or the stack. An object references
>> > another object if that object would be visited by a call to traverse
>> > (with a non-recursive function as its argument). The stack is a list of
>> > pointers; it references each object it points to. A referrer may
>> > reference an object multiple times if it is visited multiple times by
>> > traverse or appears multiple times in the stack. The list of objects it
>> > refers to are its referents.
>> >
>> > Code specification:
>> > Every object is created with AFREC set and reference count zero. Calling
>> > EPILOG(z) copies z, then pops from the stack, then calls derec(z,0).
>> > Calling derec(w,n), where w's reference count is initially m, decrements
>> > w's reference count by n. Then, if w has AFREC set, it calls
>> > derec(z,m-1) on each object referred to by z and removes the flag.
>> > There is no other way to remove the AFREC flag, and no way to add the
>> > AFREC flag at all.
>> >
>> > derec(z,0) is equivalent to derec1(z), which uses more traversals:
>> > derec1(z) does nothing if z does not have AFREC set, and otherwise
>> > decrements the counts of each of z's descendants by one less than z's
>> > reference count, then recurses.
>> >
>> > Invariant 1:
>> > At all times except during calls to derec, an object z that refers to an
>> > object marked AFREC is also marked AFREC. Equivalently, descendants of
>> > non-recursive objects are never recursive.
>> > Assume: Descendants are added only to objects not marked AFREC.
>> > Proof: When z is created, it has no descendants, so the property holds.
>> > Three events can potentially falsify the invariant:
>> > - A new descendant is added to z. If z does not have AFREC set, then
>> >   descendants cannot be added to it, by the assumption. If it does have
>> >   AFREC set, the invariant holds regardless.
>> > - The AFREC flag is added to a descendant of z. This is impossible.
>> > - The AFREC flag is removed from z--that is, derec is called on z, and
>> >   AFREC is set for z. In this case, derec removes the flag and recurses.
>> >   But then the flag will be removed for each descendant as well, and the
>> >   invariant still holds.
>> >
>> > Invariant 2:
>> > The reference count of an object is the sum over all referrers (with
>> > multiplicity) of either 1, if the referrer is the stack or an object not
>> > marked AFREC, or that object's reference count, if the referrer is an
>> > object marked AFREC.
>> > Except during the execution of memory functions, this invariant holds
>> > - At all times for objects not marked AFREC, and
>> > - When EPILOG(z) is called for objects z marked AFREC and their
>> >   descendants.
>> > We assume the invariant in the second case. If not, the old system was
>> > broken.
>> > We now show that derec1(z), equivalent to the main work of EPILOG
>> > derec(z,0), does not falsify the invariant. We omit the proof that other
>> > memory operations (ra, fa, tpop) satisfy it, as it is simple in each
>> > case.
>> > - If AFREC is not set, then derec1(z) does nothing by definition.
>> > - If AFREC is set, then derec1(z) removes the AFREC flag from z, which
>> >   decreases the corresponding terms in the reference formula from m to
>> >   1, where m is the reference count of z. It also decrements the counts
>> >   of z's descendants, to the same effect. Note that the formula counts
>> >   referrers with multiplicity, and traverse does the same. Then derec1
>> >   recurses, which maintains our invariant proveded the rest of the
>> >   function does as well.
>> >
>> >
>> > So, our assumptions about J's code base are:
>> >
>> > 1. Descendants are only added to objects marked AFREC.
>> > This could be violated by some things like in-place amend. If it is, it
>> > will break invariant 1, which is easy to test for in derec by doing a
>> > full recurse. The fix is to make sure each addition calls derec on the
>> > added objects.
>> >
>> > 2. When EPILOG(z) is called, z and its descendants obey the reference
>> >    count formula.
>> > Mostly, this depends on J working already. The only way the changes can
>> > break it is if a function does strange memory stuff (not fa or ra) to an
>> > object not marked AFREC. But that's not really out of the question.
>> >
>> > There are about 40 failing tests right now, and they're probably due to
>> > specific functions that break one of the invariants. Hopefully there are
>> > a lot fewer than 40 functions causing these failures.
>> >
>> > Marshall
>> >
>> > ----------
>> > From: *Henry Rich* <[email protected]>
>> > Date: 10 May 2016 at 16:28
>> > To: [email protected]
>> >
>> >
>> > Just starting to look at this.
>> >
>> > Creating a block with AFREC set and reference count 0 may be trouble.  I
>> > see in places where the code checks for AC(w)>1 to indicate that a block
>> > has been put into a boxed structure.  That would not work in the new 
>> > system.
>> >
>> > My suggestion: put AFREC in the low bit of AC, and go through all
>> > occurrences of AC, replacing them with a macro to extract the right value
>> > from AC-plus-flag.
>> >
>> > Henry
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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