Tony, my condolences, I work in the IT business and it's a constant problem 
that persons get insulted when you ask for more information. They usually 
tell me that "It doesn't work" and expect me to guess what doesn't work.

I suppose the program would be easier to install if you had a hundred extra 
programmers working  on the project, but that not reality.

When I put in this software, I realized two things, it's free, and it's 
cutting edge. If I wanted simple to install then I could buy some program 
that is not as good but looks pretty.

Thank guys for all the hard work you do!

At 09:03 AM 6/7/2005, Louise Hirsch wrote:
>herewith the log files you requested.
>Tony, the only reason I sent the e-mails to you was because I had received 
>an e-mail from you.  I'm so sorry you find it necessary to continually 
>berate me--all I've done is ask for help, and you send me a file telling 
>me how to ask smart questions, implying that I've been asking stupid 
>questions. This is my fifth e-mail.  In my very first e-mail I told you 
>that I had downloaded spambayes, installed it, followed all the 
>instructions and it wasn't working.  You sent me to the faq's, despite the 
>fact that I had already told you that I had done that (i.e., followed all 
>instructions.) I'm not the sort of person who goes running for help at the 
>first little glitch.  I went through all the instructions, troubleshooting 
>guides, etc. on SpamBayes, went as far as I could in following the 
>instructions, and the program still didn't work.  That was the point at 
>which I asked for help. And here we are, five e-mails later, and the best 
>you can come up with is to tell me that I ask stupid questions.
>
>I realize you're a volunteer, and that this program is offered free of 
>charge, but why can't it be simpler to operate?  If you would like me to 
>rewrite the instructions in a format so that people who are not computer 
>scientists can read it, I'd be happy to volunteer for that aspect.  I do 
>quite a bit of technical writing, translating scientific journals so that 
>ordinary people can understand them.  First, however, I'd need to 
>understand what the information means in the first place.
>
>And the first rule of business (even if it's free business)--never--ever 
>berate the customer, no matter how stupid s/he may be.
>
>I'm hopeful that the info I've sent you will allow for some resolution of 
>this problem.
>
>LGH
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Meyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "'Louise Hirsch'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Cc: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:38 AM
>Subject: RE: [Spambayes] can't get spam bayes to work
>
>
>[...]
>>let's start with the begining.  "if you are running the
>>source code version."  I don't know if I am or not, and I
>>don't know what a source code version is.
>
>The beginning is a link that says "Determine your installation type".  If
>you click this, you will be directed to the section that explains how to
>determine your installation type (binary or source).  In particular, it
>says: "If you downloaded an installer .EXE file, then you are running the
>binary version".  So you are running the binary version.
>
>>I followed all the instructions.  I have tried to ask smart
>>questions, and all I'm getting in response from you is insults,
>>and I frankly can't understand why.
>
>I have not insulted you at all.  I am doing my best to help you figure out
>what is going wrong, as I do for many other people via the mailing list.
>You said that you had already completed the process that I suggested in my
>initial email; I pointed out that we need as much information as possible -
>particularly about what you've already tried - to quickly solve the problem.
>The link to ESR's FAQ for question-asking covers this (in the "be precise"
>section: <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#beprecise>).
>
>>Why can't you help me?
>
>Because I don't have all the information.  The information I (or anyone
>else) needs to figure out what is going wrong is (most likely) in the log
>file.  We need to see that log file to figure things out.
>
>>The next thing these instructions say are: "you will need to
>>run sb_server in a command window to get the error messages,
>>unless you are running as a service."  As I told you before,
>>this might as well be in Chinese.
>
>Again, this starts with "if you are running the source code version".  If
>you were running the source code version, then it would be a reasonable
>assumption that you would understand those instructions.  You are not (as
>above), so know to skip the rest of the sentence.
>
>>When I run into people who don't understand my field,
>>I try and work with them and help them, not belittle them, or
>>confuse them with jargon.
>
>SpamBayes is an open source project, developed by volunteers in their spare
>time.  You are welcome to suggest improvements to the program (including the
>wording of documentation), and such contributions are gladly received, and
>usually quickly added to the project.  You (or anyone else) are also welcome
>to help anyone that asks for help via the mailing list; again, there is no
>obligation for *anyone* to do this (as opposed to purchased software, where
>such support may be part of the contract).
>
>As many users of the spambayes mailing list (not to mention elsewhere) can
>attest, I do not try and belittle anyone.  We also do not try and confuse
>anyone with jargon - if you looked at early documentation, you would find it
>was much worse.  However, unless someone (with the required skills)
>volunteers to improve the documentation, it won't get better.  There's also
>continual movement towards making using SpamBayes easier to use/install
>(again, one can compare the early alphas to 1.0.4), but that also takes
>time, and a lot of volunteer effort.
>
>>There is simply no way I can comprehend these instructions.  i
>>don't know what they mean, or where to go to find any
>>information about them.
>
>The instructions from the troubleshooting guide in a step-by-step form are:
>
>  1.  Open your Windows temp directory as follows:
>
>    1.1  Open an Explorer window (e.g. press Windows-E).
>
>    1.2.  In the "Address" bar towards the top of the window, type:
>"C:\Documents and Settings\{username}\Local Settings\Temp" (without the
>quotes).  You will need to replace "{username}" with your Windows username.
>
>  2.  In the window, you should be able to find a file called
>"SpamBayesServer1.log" (you may not see the ".log", depending on your
>settings).  There may be up to four others (all older), named
>"SpamBayesServer2.log", "SpamBayesServer3.log", "SpamBayesServer4.log", and
>"SpamBayesServer5.log".
>
>  3.  Email this file to the mailing list.  Outlook Express includes
>documentation about how to attach files, but the simplest method is to
>select the file in the Explorer window, press Control-C, open a new mail
>message in Outlook Express, and press Control-V.
>
>[...]
>>When I double click on it, I get a screen that says: "There
>>are no untrained messages to display.  Return Home or Check Again."
>
>This tells us that SpamBayes is running, which eliminates one possible cause
>for the error you described.
>
>=Tony.Meyer
>
>--
>Please always include the list (spambayes at python.org) in your replies
>(reply-all), and please don't send me personal mail about SpamBayes.
>http://www.massey.ac.nz/~tameyer/writing/reply_all.html explains this.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>[email protected]
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/spambayes
>Check the FAQ before asking: http://spambayes.sf.net/faq.html
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.5 - Release Date: 6/7/2005

Cecil Bayona
KD5NWA
www.qrpradio.com

'Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you 
with experience.'  


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