Hi William,

We don't have a brainstorming session planned yet - but we should!!  I
believe Steve and Kate have been working through some of this as well. Let
me find some time for us to get together and put something together! *How
are folks for 15 April (Friday) for a discussion? *

I am in agreement with you 100% on making sure this is aligned with SLSA
and in-toto! (I am actually writing a blog post on some synergies as we
speak!)

I like the BuildRun idea (and maybe that's also orthogonal to the build
profiles that Nisha mentioned). Also, I do appreciate your specificity in
laying out the idea concretely :).

One thing that I was thinking to add is also the Builder information/URI
(or maybe that's already encodable in the env/metadata). Think its worth
calling out since that's the identifier for attestations. Since the
BuildRun document may not necessarily be generated by the organization that
asked for the build - i.e. calling out to github actions/travisCI, it would
allow us to also reason about compromises.

Another thought that was brought up in some conversations is that we could
also point to/reference certain documents where appropriate. Still very
half baked, but along the lines of thinking about leveraging some
SLSA/intoto efforts out there without potentially duplicating efforts.

On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 1:53 PM William Bartholomew (CELA) <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Hey Brandon and Nisha,
>
>
>
> There are people from Microsoft that would probably be interested in
> participating in this discussion, are you considering doing some
> brainstorming sessions?
>
>
>
> In my mind I’ve always imagined the pedigree information (which build
> would be a part of) as defining new both new element types and potentially
> new relationship types (although I think we might have most of these
> covered already). I’d also want to ensure that anything we do here can
> integrate with in-toto/SLSA attestations.
>
>
>
> If I take an example in SPDX today (bar-0.1 is a static library consumed
> to consume the foo-1.0 package):
>
> (File:foo.c, File:foo.h, File:bar.lib, File:bar.h)--[:GENERATES]-->File:foo
>
> (File:bar.c, File:bar.h)--[:GENERATES]-->File:bar.lib
>
> (File:bar.lib, File:bar.h)--[:CONTAINED_IN]-->File:bar-0.1.tgz
>
> Package:bar-0.1--[:DISTRIBUTION_ARTIFACT]-->File:bar0.1.tgz
>
> Package:bar-0.1--[:BUILD_DEPENDENCY_OF]-->Package:foo-1.0
>
> (File:foo)--[:CONTAINED_IN]-->File:foo-1.0.tgz
>
> Package:foo-1.0--[:DISTRIBUTION_ARTIFACT]-->File:foo-1.0.tgz
>
>
>
> I can trace the integrity of all of the build artifacts (based on their
> hashes) but I don’t know anything about the build environment or build
> environments that produced them. I don’t know if bar and foo were built in
> the same build process or by different build processes and, if the builds
> were fully reproducible, I may not even know which instance of a build
> produced them (because the input and output hashes would be the same). I
> may be able to assume some of this information based on the pedigree of the
> SPDX document (such as who created it and signed it) but that’s an
> inference and still lacks interesting detail.
>
>
>
> In SLSA attestation there is a statement (made up of a subject and a
> predicate) and an envelope (made up of the statement and a signature). The
> predicate is a claim that the signer is making about the subject, such as,
> this artifact was built by a specific instance of a build process that has
> these attributes and used these inputs. This model maps quite nicely on to
> SPDX where subjects are references to an SPDX element (typically something
> derived from Artifact), the predicate is a subclass of Element that
> describes the claim being made, and we have a signature over the document
> (or in the future individual elements). We also have the ability to track
> creator independently of signer using the “createdBy” from Element to
> Identity.
>
>
>
> Some of the content in SPDX is already an attestation (or more meta it
> *all* is), for example, an Annotation is a predicate containing a type
> and a textual statement and it is linked to a subject by the “subject”
> property. Similarly, license and vulnerability information are attestations
> about artifacts. More meta, relationships are also attestations (this is
> one of the reasons I wanted them to inherit from Element), they are a
> predicate that describes the type of relationship and what the relationship
> is to (the From is the subject of the statement in this case).
>
>
>
> So going back to the example above what we want is a predicate that
> describes an instance of a build, so we can define a new BuildRun or
> BuildInstance class, that inherits from Element (or possibly Artifact, I’d
> have to think about that some more – somewhere that Sean’s definitions
> would help 😊). That would then let us extend the graph above:
>
> (File:foo.c, File:foo.h, File:bar.lib, File:bar.h)--[:GENERATES]-->File:foo
>
> (File:bar.c, File:bar.h)--[:GENERATES]-->File:bar.lib
>
> (File:bar.lib, File:bar.h)--[:CONTAINED_IN]-->File:bar-0.1.tgz
>
> Package:bar-0.1--[:DISTRIBUTION_ARTIFACT]-->File:bar0.1.tgz
>
> Package:bar-0.1--[:BUILD_DEPENDENCY_OF]-->Package:foo-1.0
>
> (File:foo)--[:CONTAINED_IN]-->File:foo-1.0.tgz
>
> Package:foo-1.0--[:DISTRIBUTION_ARTIFACT]-->File:foo-1.0.tgz
>
>
>
> # I chose to include both the Package and the package’s distribution
> artifact to establish a stronger link to the physical files consumed and
> produced, but there’s other ways this could be modeled. For example, if
> this was consuming a git repository containing foo.c and foo.h then the
> commit can be modeled as a Package which the build DEPENDS_ON.
>
> BuildRun:run_123--[:DEPENDS_ON]-->(Package:bar-01, File:bar-0.1.tgz,
> File:foo.c, File:foo.h)
>
> BuildRun:run_123--[:GENERATES]-->(Package:foo-1.0, File:foo-1.0.tgz)
>
> Package:gcc-9.4.0--[:BUILD_TOOL_OF]-->BuildRun:run_123
>
>
>
> # We could add properties to BuildRun to capture any necessary information
> (this needs to be modeled to have the right level of abstraction and
> flexibility)
>
> BuildRun:
>
>       environment: Map<string, string>
>
>       command_line: String
>
>       stdout: String
>
>       stderr: String
>
>
>
> In this example we can see that the BuildRun:run_123 consumed a pre-build
> bar package and used gcc 9.4.0 so we have additional context we didn’t have
> before, if bar was built from source from the repo in the same build as foo
> we’d see a graph more like this:
>
> BuildRun:run_123--[:DEPENDS_ON]-->(File:bar.c, File:bar.h, File:foo.c,
> File:foo.h)
>
> BuildRun:run_123--[:GENERATES]-->(Package:foo-1.0, File:foo-1.0.tgz)
>
> Package:gcc-9.4.0--[:BUILD_TOOL_OF]-->BuildRun:run_123
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> William Bartholomew (he/him) – Let’s chat
> <https://outlook.office.com/findtime/[email protected]&anonymous&ep=plink>
>
> Principal Security Strategist
>
> Global Cybersecurity Policy – Microsoft
>
>
>
> *My working day may not be your working day. Please don’t feel obliged to
> reply to this e-mail outside of your normal working hours.*
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of
> *Brandon Lum via lists.spdx.org
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 2, 2022 12:49 PM
> *To:* Nisha Kumar <[email protected]>
> *Cc:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [spdx-tech] Adding Build SBOM relationships for
> S3C resiliency
>
>
>
> You don't often get email from [email protected]. Learn why
> this is important <http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
>
> Hey Nisha,
>
>
>
> Yes - exactly!! Curious to hear what some ideas are around a "build
> profile"! Would this be along the lines of another element/document that
> would be referenced? or maybe kind of like the defects vulnerability ref
> documents?
>
>
>
> Another aspect that I'm hoping to explore - is being able to put together
> SBOM documents which are not directly linked to each other. I.e. in the
> situation where there is a known unknown that a build was using Package ABC
> with hash XYZ, would it be possible to fill in the gaps by finding the SBOM
> document with the binary hash XYZ, and adding references to the document
> (or composing the documents).
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Brandon
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 11:18 AM Nisha Kumar <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi Brandon,
>
> Sorry for getting back to you so late. I've been thinking of an SPDX 3.0
> profile that would contain software build information like what you have
> described in 1., but it seems to me from previous conversations that the
> information could be covered using relationships such as BUILD_TOOL_OF and
> GENERATED_FROM. However, things like "build environment" (like VMs and
> containers) and build flags are not part of relationships. I think it would
> be useful to define some new relationships based on these considerations as
> part of a "build profile".
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -Nisha
>
> On 3/17/22 07:41, Brandon Lum via lists.spdx.org
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.spdx.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cwillbar%40microsoft.com%7Cbbca7b884a574f49227e08da14e1ce27%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637845257327869976%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=i51a0OaJZnH0WiN3PZDk8MTYw%2FVGaV3NOft1QdbDpI8%3D&reserved=0>
> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I've been exploring ideas in the build provenance realm, and I think there
> are some ideas there that could be useful to incorporate into SPDX. I
> wanted to get a sense if folks are interested, and would love to work on
> something for this!
>
>
>
> Some of the ideas from build provenance (I'm going to frame it around the
> security use case since that's what I'm most familiar with). These are
> mostly orthogonal concepts to those of the SLSA framework
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fslsa.dev%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cwillbar%40microsoft.com%7Cbbca7b884a574f49227e08da14e1ce27%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637845257327869976%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=8Wct%2B620KkVi3DyDLXi%2FFFr0ea57y8l%2BUqv0J23zMcg%3D&reserved=0>
> :
>
> 1. What is the toolchain used to build this binary/artifact (in the event
> where a compromised compiler, build container, etc. is detected)
>
> 2. What/who is the builder that was used to build this binary/artifact (in
> the event where a build system gets compromised - e.g. CI/CD like github
> actions, travis, circle CI is compromised), with the ability to respond to
> breach.
>
> 3. (Already part of SPDX relationship between elements
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fspdx.github.io%2Fspdx-spec%2Frelationships-between-SPDX-elements%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cwillbar%40microsoft.com%7Cbbca7b884a574f49227e08da14e1ce27%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637845257327869976%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ckGxOGqZP20DXzxgGPuUt5g3J5uitWtTtR4T3hPU8gk%3D&reserved=0>)
> What are the materials that were used to build this binary/artifact
>
> 4. (Already covered by proposed canonicalisation committee) Integrity
> validation/provenance of claims of binary/artifact
>
>
>
> I think there could potentially be a place to define some of these in
> SPDX, maybe through adding more relationships to
> https://spdx.github.io/spdx-spec/relationships-between-SPDX-elements/
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fspdx.github.io%2Fspdx-spec%2Frelationships-between-SPDX-elements%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cwillbar%40microsoft.com%7Cbbca7b884a574f49227e08da14e1ce27%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637845257327869976%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ckGxOGqZP20DXzxgGPuUt5g3J5uitWtTtR4T3hPU8gk%3D&reserved=0>,
> or otherwise.
>
>
>
> Would like to hear thoughts/interest from folks!
>
>
>
> On a side note: I am also interested in getting more into the tooling side
> of Build SBOMs (and distribution/resolution of). Would love to chat with
> anyone that's working on it - I'm hoping to define some projects around
> this!
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Brandon
>
> 
>


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