I'll start with this: > I would like to voice my support for Dave's effort to protect our > creative property. > While our new electronic world allows folks who have never met in person > to share their favorite images with interested others, it also makes it > easy for people like Rick Gardner (not any relation, I hasten to add) to > abuse the medium. Whether done out of ignorance or malice, it needs to > be nipped in the bud or it will become widespread by default. Try > friendly reason first, if this doesn't succeed, get the lawyers and hit > 'em hard. > Theft doesn't cut it in any medium. > Mike Gardner
Of all of the responses, and most are nearly identical in content, this one above sums up the situation well. Rick Gardner must be stopped for the simple reason that he is a criminal and he will continue to promote these illegal acts from others if left to fester. Well, here's the deal guys: I'm working on it, but if you have had an image stolen from you, I need to know about it. Through our (personal) discussions today, we have discovered that this guy really is out to selfishly steal for his own gain, and he believes that he cannot be caught. I think the show will be over for Rick Gardner in the next few days, or at least he won't touch our stuff. The copyright situation yesterday has done an excellent job of defining this list's ideals (and group of people). Not surprisingly, there are two distinct groups of people. The people that support the law, what is right ethically and the educated are the vast majority as indicated on this list. Sorry I doubted you guys; I think there are a few bad apples here to 'spoil the pie' for the rest of us. The people still in fairyland that think that there are no laws and that their hobby protects them from reality are in the minority. A VERY small minority. Given the choice of ignorance or education, some people seem bent on staying sealed up within their own little mind. You few people are also contributing to the problem by giving your stuff away without so much as a thought, tolerating theft of other people's work and encouraging this type of behavior. I liken it to a rape victim and all of the witnesses not testifying to the crime. If you don't understand the importance of this situation, then I'm sorry (for you), but you are subscribed to the wrong list. But by all means, you can stay, and my server will continue to use bandwidth to deliver your mail, but from my latest count of who supports what here in my mailbox today, if all of the people on this list who just think copyright infringement is not real and think that a hobby such as ours is isolated enough that you can continue to interact with other people and other companies without negative consequence, just unsubsribed, I doubt if the rest of us remaining would notice much difference other than things may make more sense without the detractions from the uneducated and carefree. This list has a backbone afterall. I'm impressed with your responses. The reality of it is, those of us that take pictures are photographers (amateurs, professionals, hobbyists - it makes no difference) and those of us that chose to contribute (a choice) to the web site are all effected by what wrongdoing people like Rick Gardner are doing, which is illegal. Explain how this doesn't make you an accessory to the crime if you tolerate it. Especially when he stole your shots and you don't want to get involved. How many of you so far have had him remove your images from his site? If you don't, this guy Rick Gardner will just laugh until the lawyers contact him. Which brings me to the next issue. There are simply people here that know that copyright infringement is illegal and wrong, but they participate in these illegal acts anyway because they are naive of the Internet and they are convinced that nothing matters or applies to them because the government didn't personally hand them a written copy of the laws and the Copyright Act. If you have permission to use someone else's shot, then you are not doing anything wrong. If you steal someone else's shot without asking permission, and that person discovers this and wants to prosecute you, (and they would have every right to bill you for usage at the current rates too), then I will support them. And you guys that don't want to defend yourselves: You say you just let your shots go without at least permission, to blow in the wind and whatever happened, happened? You are saying that your pictures are worthless then, and I have no argument with you there, but you are contributing to the problem, not the solution. Selfish ignorance is the best description for that act. If you educate yourself on the laws, the Internet is no different from the magazines and books when it comes to copyright. It's just harder to enforce, but new laws are being written every day to protect people and their property, and these laws will contain the criminals if you support their purpose and application. I'm an honest person (stupid me?) protecting my rights and looking out for the rights of others who placed their images in my care. I don't want to see anyone that I know taken advantage of or exploited by a crook. If you are less than honest and you believe that it is OK to steal as long as you are not caught or as long as no one else says anything to you about it personally, then please unsubscribe from SPORRS because when you read my new list charter text, I'm sure it will be a conflict of your interest, because it simply promotes honest behavior, education and railroad photography, while sharing and having fun on a mailing list and a web site without illegal acts of crime. Got too complex for you suddenly? Bail out at any time. Like the fact that this list has a backbone and is supported by mostly honest, educated people? You're welcome to stay. The focus of SPORRS is anything that has to do with Railroad Photography. Supporting crime and ignorance of the law from the criminal point of view, and the intent to selfishly benefit at the expense of others, is not part of this list's purpose. And both myself and my Internet Provider prohibit illegal activity on the Web. That would include stealing another photographer's work: Copyright Infringement. Dave Cohen Photographer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog -> SPORRS: Serious Photographers of Railroad Related Subjects -> Web Site: http://www.anet-stl.com/acphotog/sporrs
