On 28-Feb-20 15:06, Stefano Salsano wrote: > Brian, > > Il 2020-02-28 02:47, Brian E Carpenter ha scritto: >> Stefano, >> >> The problem is that the draft simply doesn't explain (or refer to an >> explanation) of what this "penultimate segment" is. There are at least three >> hypotheses which I suspect different people are using, leading to this >> endless dialogue: >> >> 1) It's a forwarding node, a.k.a. a router, that blindly follows the PSP >> instructions by removing an IPv6 header before forwarding the packet, >> completely against the text of RFC 8200. > > it is a forwarding node, a.k.a. a router, which follows the PSP > instructions and removes the SRH before forwarding the packet
So could the draft make this explicit, because I guarantee you it is not in the least obvious to the non-expert reader? > let me disagree with you on the part "completely against the text of RFC > 8200" :-) You are trying to squeeze through a very small hole in the relevant paragraph of RFC8200. Either the draft should not do that, or it should explain precisely what this hole is, so that the IETF & IESG can decide whether they agree. Let's be clear, we're talking about a routing header which in some unclear circumstances instructs a certain router to delete the header en route. It's unclear because the draft doesn't really explain the "flavors" such as PSP or how a router knows algorithmically when to apply the PSP flavor. I don't see how that can be left as an implementation issue. Regards Brian > > Stefano > >> >> 2) It's a node that receives and terminates the packet, and then makes a new >> one with its own address as source and a new (ultimate) destination address, >> which doesn't happen to contain an SRH header at all. >> >> 3) It's an offload processor in the destination node, that removes some crud >> (the SRH header) before passing the packet up to the IPv6 stack in the host. >> >> At the moment, a reader of the draft who is not familiar with the details of >> at least one SRH implmentation cannot decide which of these hypotheses is >> correct. >> >> Despite numerous requests, and several new versions, the draft still leaves >> this mystery intact, and is therefore simply not ready for the IESG. >> >> So I repeat my request for the draft to explain what it means by "pop" and >> by "penultimate segment". If it turns out that we are in case 2) or 3) >> above, problem solved. >> >> Regards >> Brian Carpenter >> >> On 28-Feb-20 00:42, Stefano Salsano wrote: >>> Brian, >>> >>> Il 2020-02-27 03:29, Brian E Carpenter ha scritto: >>>> Stefano, >>>> On 27-Feb-20 14:42, Stefano Salsano wrote: >>>>> Il 2020-02-27 02:14, Brian E Carpenter ha scritto: >>>>>> Eric, >>>>>> >>>>>> On 27-Feb-20 12:18, Eric Vyncke (evyncke) wrote: >>>>>>> Writing this without any hat, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please note that on the logical side, it still have to be "proven" that >>>>>>> this idea is strictly forbidden by RFC 8200. >>>>>> >>>>>> The draft uses an undefined term ("pop") but it does *explicitly* state >>>>>> in a section called "Penultimate Segment Pop of the SRH": >>>>>> >>>>>>>> S14.4. Remove the SRH from the IPv6 extension header chain >>>>>> >>>>>> If the word "penultimate" means what it means in every dictionary, this >>>>>> is in-flight removal of a header, and that is explicitly against RFC >>>>>> 8200, section 4, first paragraph below the diagram. >>>>> >>>>> Brian, >>>>> >>>>> "penultimate segment" means what it means in every dictionary, but this >>>>> is not in-fligth removal of a header. >>>>> >>>>> When the packet has reached the "penultimate segment", it has reached a >>>>> node "identified in the Destination Address field of the IPv6 header" as >>>>> stated in RFC 8200, section 4, first paragraph below the diagram >>>> >>>> So in what sense is it penultimate (i.e. next to last)? If it has reached >>>> the destination address, >>> >>> if the segment list is [S1, S2, S3] (where S1 is the first segment and >>> S3 the final destination) >>> >>> S2 is the penultimate segment and the packet is received by S2 with >>> Destination Address = S2, I repeat that at the very end of section 3 of >>> RFC 8200 the "Destination address" is defined as "address of the >>> intended recipient of the packet (possibly not the ultimate recipient, >>> if a Routing header is present)" >>> >>>> what happens next? >>> >>> next the packet needs to be forwarded to S3 >>> >>>> I understand this for the following case, Ultimate Segment Pop, where the >>>> text refers to processing the packet inside the receiving node. But the >>>> text is completely lacking an explanation of the "penultimate" case, >>>> and I found nothing about it in other SRH documents either. >>>> >>>> If I was writing code for this, I would have no idea how to generate a >>>> test case. >>>> >>>> It's also obscure in the text how the node receiving a packet knows >>>> which of "PSP, USP and USD flavors" applies. They don't seem to be marked >>>> in the packet in any way. >>> >>> it is not marked in the packet, likewise it is not marked in the packet >>> which SRv6 behavior is associated with a SID >>> >>> Stefano >>> >>>> >>>> It seems to me that there is something blindingly obvious to SRH >>>> specialists >>>> that is not stated at all in the draft, so the rest of us simply can't make >>>> sense of it. It may or may not be a gap in the protocol, but there is >>>> definitely a gap in the description. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please note that at the very end of section 3 the "Destination address" >>>>> is defined as "address of the intended recipient of the packet (possibly >>>>> not the ultimate recipient, if a Routing header is present)" >>>>> >>>>> Stefano >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It's possible that "penultimate" means something else, e.g. "ultimate". >>>>>> I don't know. I've been puzzling over this language for months and it >>>>>> doesn't change. Maybe someone can finally post an explanation, but until >>>>>> they do, I don't see how any WG Chair could assert rough consensus. An >>>>>> obviously organised +1+1+1+1 campaign is not consensus. I don't know >>>>>> about you, but when I see a message whose only content is "+1" I just >>>>>> delete it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> >>>>>>> Moreover, this 'proof' can technically wait until the IETF last call or >>>>>>> even until the IESG ballot. I see little point in postponing the >>>>>>> closing of the WGLC and advancing the document (of course, the document >>>>>>> shepherd will need to carefully write the section about the rough WG >>>>>>> consensus). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Finally, as far as I know, at the IETF we have no religion... else we >>>>>>> would still be running NCP or IPv4 :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -éric >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: ipv6 <ipv6-boun...@ietf.org> on behalf of Warren Kumari >>>>>>> <war...@kumari.net> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ...%<...%<.... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It doesn't really matter how many people say +1 for moving it >>>>>>> forwards >>>>>>> -- if there are valid technical objections these have to be >>>>>>> dealt with >>>>>>> - and I think that the relationship with RFC8200 falling into >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> category... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>>>>>> i...@ietf.org >>>>>>> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >>>>>> i...@ietf.org >>>>>> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring