Thanks Jim, that gives me something to work with and it makes sense. Greg Living Water Fire Protection, LLC 1160 McKenzie Road Cantonment, FL 32533 850-937-1850 Fax: 850-937-1852
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Davidson Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 7:29 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: POD Storage Greg There has been no full scale fire testing of the PODs storage configuration, and until there has been testing the design of sprinkler protection for this storage needs to be very conservative, addressing some of the unique features and problems presented by this storage configuration. Regarding PODs storage you need to address the PODS storage by looking at the fuel load and fuel load configuration. Let us look first at the type of commodity being stored in the PODS unit. We have opened and inspected a large number of the PODS units throughout our clients facilities and have classified the storage to be typical Class IV commodity. NFPA 13 Paragraph 2-2.3.4 defines a Class IV commodity as a product, with or without pallets, that meets one of the following criteria: (1) Constructed partially or totally of Group B plastics. (2) Consists of free-flowing Group A plastic materials. (3) Contains within itself or its packaging an appreciable amount (5 percent to 15 percent by weight or 5 percent to 25 percent by volume) of Group A plastics. The remaining materials shall be permitted to be metal, wood, paper, natural or synthetic fibers, or Group B or Group C plastics. The NFPA definition of a Class IV commodity describes almost all house hold products that could be stored in a PODS unit. The PODS unit is enclosed on five sides with ¾ inch plywood panels supported by 4" x 4" wood framing, approximately 8' wide x 8'-5" high x 16' long with a flexible plastic roof or solid wood roof. A fire in a PODS unit will grow within the unit, when the roof of the unit is breached by the fire a large amount of heat and unburned products of combustion will be released into the building, which can result in a large column of superheated air racing to the ceiling of the building. This large heat release from a shielded fire will overwhelm an ESFR sprinkler system by operating an excessive number of sprinkler heads. Each three high set of stored units with have a minimum 3 ft access aisle on all four sides of each stack of three high PODS units. To over come the heat release from a shielded fire 286ºF temperature rated standard type of sprinkler will need to be used in the sprinkler system. Historically, this sprinkler head was used to address high heat release rated fires. A similar occupancy that has a shielded fire growth potential is the manufacturer of mobile /modular homes which is classified as an Extra Hazard Group II occupancy classification which is required to be protected by a sprinkler system designed to provide a design density of 0.40 gpm per sq. ft. over the hydraulically most remote 2,000 sq. ft. using 286ºF temperature rated sprinklers at the ceiling. Because of the storage of the PODS units three high, there is a real possibility that a fire in a lower unit will cause the collapse of the pile onto a second pile of storage units and at the same time shield the fire from the water discharge from the overhead sprinkler system. In order to address the shielded fire issue from a collapse of a pile of three storage units a second sprinkler system density design criteria needs to be provided. Usually when there is a concern about a shielded fire the area of operation for the sprinkler system is increased to either 4,000 sq. ft. or even as high as 5,000 sq. ft. with a minimum design density of 0.30 gpm over the hydraulic most remote area. For the design of our clients PODS storage warehouse we recommended to the client to have the sprinkler system designed to produce both of the following sprinkler system discharge densities over the referenced areas of operation: 1. A 0.60 gpm per sq. ft. over the hydraulically most remote 3,000 sq. ft. 2. A 0.40 gpm per sq. ft. over the hydraulically most remote 5,000 sq. ft Yes the site has a good water supply. Greg hope this helps Jim Davidson Davidson Associates 302-378-7600 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 8:01 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: POD Storage The formal restrictions are what you would expect: No flammable liquids, hazardous materials, explosives and blah blah blah. I know there is the possibility of dangerous stuff but I do believe the majority of the stuff in the containers is going to be normal household items that are either in transit or in temporary storage while a home is being built, etc. My primary concern is the plastic roofs and the foam inside (mattresses, sofas, etc.) and the fact that if the fire starts on the bottom level that the water will not be able to penetrate the upper PODs. Maybe if we provide enough water we could at least shield the adjacent pods and contain the fire? Greg Living Water Fire Protection, LLC 1160 McKenzie Road Cantonment, FL 32533 850-937-1850 Fax: 850-937-1852 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew J. Willis Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:48 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: POD Storage If I recall the last time we discussed this, it was the "other" stuff that can be placed in the PODS that make a big IF appear on the horizon. I know you can't design to "if" but... Has anyone set fire on these yet since our last discussion? Matt -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Williams - work Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 7:38 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: POD Storage Greg, From what I can tell, this would essentially be container storage. It could be worthwhile to find out who they are marketing to to figure out what might show up. If they are marketing to primarily individuals, the chances of their being a POD of rubber tires would be slim. Does the company have any restrictions on contents? You also might want to pursue the 'container storage' thread on a commercial level and see what is out there. There may be some government info on that subject. This is something could be coming to everyone's jurisdiction at some point. I'd be interested to know what you find out. At 07:21 AM 1/18/2007, you wrote: >Is there no help from the forum on this one?! > >The guy has to protect the building and the one thing I am absolutely >sure about is that we will not be putting sprinklers inside the PODs themselves. > >Other than that it is in the air - water - foam? > >Has there been any recorded fires in these facilities that someone has >knowledge or experience with? > >ANY input is appreciated. >Greg >Living Water Fire Protection, LLC >1160 McKenzie Road >Cantonment, FL 32533 >850-937-1850 >Fax: 850-937-1852 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew J. >Willis >Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:39 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: POD Storage > >Take a break from it, ,buy us all a beer, and we will see what we come >up with. > >Matt > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg >McGahan >Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:00 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: POD Storage > >I know this has been addressed but I did not see any conclusions in >forum archives. > >PODs stored 3 high: approximately 27' with a 30' eave height in the >building. I truly do not know where to start with this one. > >Any help would be appreciated. > >Thanks, >Greg > >Living Water Fire Protection, LLC >1160 McKenzie Road >Cantonment, FL 32533 >850-937-1850 >Fax: 850-937-1852 > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, Connecticut 860-535-2080 www.fpdc.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
