I don't think that the "Garage" occupancy matters Craig. Once the amount of
storage area, exceeds the design area for storage protection, your in the
same situation weather the building is 4000 SF or 4.000.000 SF. Your relying
on the fire sprinkler design to control the storage area fire.
If it's a big Box (Which by the way our City in it's infinite wisdom says is
any occupancy other than grocery store over 12,000SF) or anything else, does
it matter if its the primary function of the building or secondary to the
intended use? If you have a fire in the storage area, you'd better hope it
was designed for storage.
Thom McMahon
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488-2136
Tel: 970-879-7952
Fax: 970-879-7926
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 7:33 AM
Subject: RE: Determining a Warehouse Commodity Classification
Seems some are missing that this is a repair garage, not a big box
retail warehouse.
But anyway Richard, I would suggest having the aerosols/flammable
liquids stored in a fire rated cabinet to take them out of the rack
storage equation. Sounds like the quantity is minimal so you shouldn't
need a large cabinet. You can also drop a sprinkler into the cabinet
for extra protection. Same with the batteries, put them in a separate
room not in the racks. Then it appears that all you have left could be
considered Class II as you have stated.
As far as ESFR, I would say only as a last resort if you can't make it
work with a control mode design strategy. I also think you need to run
some preliminary calcs before calling for a fire pump on a project like
this. The cost would be quite disproportional to the overall project
value and is without doubt going to create some wailing and gnashing of
teeth on the part of the owner and GC. You state that you've got 20 psi
at 1100 gpm, what is the static pressure? You need all the numbers not
just flowing psi and gpm. Make sure someone has performed a proper
hydrant flow test for you and make sure it's a recent test. If you can
go to a Control Mode design you could possibly make it work depending on
where your system falls within the curve. It might take some massaging
of pipe sizes and some extra time in selecting valves and backflows etc.
with the lowest pressure drop.
I don't buy into the concept of trying to see into the future use of a
building and over designing a system to accommodate what MIGHT be.
Who's got a crystal ball to see all the possibilities? Design it
conservatively but within reason and document what the design is based
on. Over design based on conjecture increases cost and trying to ram a
high dollar system down the throat of an owner based on "what might be"
creates a lot of $$$$$$ heartburn for owners. Those are the kind of
things that shed a negative light on our industry. People don't totally
appreciate or understand what we do and all they see is the cost versus
return on investment ratio of zero for that sprinkler system.
From a building code standpoint, is your office area separated from the
storage and shop areas by rated walls/ceilings? Is the area above the
office accessible for storage? Owners love to use that space for
storage of all kinds of odds and ends. If it is, then don't forget
about sprinkling at the main building roof level as well as inside the
office.
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.lg.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lindner,
Richard
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 12:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Determining a Warehouse Commodity Classification
(I seem to have lost access to the archives, so I can't research this..)
I am involved in an initial design (performance spec) for a warehouse
type project consisting of a butler building approx. 300'x60' and 35'
high in size (18,000 sq. ft.). Approx 7000 sq. ft. of floor area will
consist of 25' high rack storage that is 42" deep with a 12" space and
then another 42" deep rack. There are 5 racks of this arrangement with
an aisle at minimum 9'-6" width between them. The shelving itself is
wire decking.
The center part of the building has some administrative area offices and
other storage areas (no shelving shown). The other end of the building
is a maintenance garage for repairs of vehicles.
We have asked about what they intend to store on the shelving and have
been told that primarily they are storing spare machinery parts, some of
which are in wood crates; these are small, medium, large and very large.
These include hydraulic cylinders, engines, transmissions, radiators,
air chambers, pumps, belts, hoses, fittings, nuts, bolts (small items
are in cardboard boxes in most cases), and tools (both power and
non-power tools). Aerosol cans include brake cleaner, starting fluid,
lubricant (WD-40), window cleaner, and paint. They carry no more than
two cases (24 cans) of each item in stock. There are filters, including
fuel, oil, air, water, and hydraulic types, all sizes and shapes. They
also store spare pre-charged batteries. These are heavy equipment
batteries; (2) large, (2) medium and (4) small are typically all they
have on hand.
We feel the rack storage area is our most demanding area. We have
reviewed our options and feel that Commodity Class II would be
appropriate based on the above information. Does anyone see something
that might reflect using a different classification?
Appreciate any response.
Richard
Richard K. Lindner
Plumbing Senior Designer
Morris, Johnson & Associates, Inc.
611 Industrial Way West
Eatontown, New Jersey 07724
P: 732-380-1100 ext. 4186 | F: 732-380-1111
[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.morrisjohnson.com
--------------------------------------------------------
This message contains confidential information and is intended only for
the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender
immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and
delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be
guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be
intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or
contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any
errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a
result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please
request a hard-copy version.
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
