I agree with George, except about his CET opinion.
seriously
Walk away if you can. Some forumites may disagree, but an extra effort
should be made to report this to the local authority. I believe that you
have a responsibility to the overall public safety to do this, and are
basically compelled to do it by both the NICET code of ethics and the PE
code of ethics.
If the AHJ does not do anything about it, then you should consult your
lawyer, and document the hell out of it.
Jeff Hewitt, PE, SET, SFPE (Prof. Member)
Corporate Engineer
Bi-State Fire Protection Corporation
636-946-0011
636-946-5172 (FAX)
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----- Original Message -----
From: "George Church" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:39 AM
Subject: RE: owners information certificate
Todd, I think the chances of getting PAIN IN FULL are excellent.
I threw the car example out just as a parallel.
Assuming you can find work to keep your guys busy, RUN AWAY is by far the
best advice. Life's too short to do business with the unethical.
Even if you install it properly, will it be maintained? Will the heat stay
on (ok, you're in FL)? If there is a loss, will the Owner try to lie and
opin it on you by fabricating a story to pin the liability on you?
RUN AWAY
And once you've done that, you are no longer the agent of the owner, not
having any contractual bind. This frees you up to call the AHJ and explain
what is coming at him. That is the ETHICAL way to handle this, IMHO.
Except I can't have an opinion, just being a CET :)
glc
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd
Williams
- work
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 12:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: owners information certificate
Greg,
Run, don't walk away. This guy is an ethical nightmare. If he does
this type of thing, what are your odds of getting pain in full? Or
what else does he have out there that could potentially hurt you? I
would contact your attorney, explain to him the situation and see
what his/her advise would be on protecting yourself, but leave this
for your competition. If you've already signed on, talk to your
attorney about this from that perspective. Maybe you have an escape route.
Todd
At 12:03 PM 3/20/2007, you wrote:
Part A:
What do we (as an industry) do when an owner completes the Owner's
Information Certificate incorrectly to deliberately mislead an AHJ?
Part B:
What do we do when they technically tell the truth as in building a
warehouse that has no storage above 12' initially but they have every
intention (because they tell you so) to store PODS 24' high after they get
a
CO?
BTW, the reason I have been unsuccessful in convincing the owner of the
proper level of protection is because there have 2 of these buildings
built
within 200 miles in the last few months and both of them had minimal
systems. The installing contractor on one of the jobs told me that they
were
told the building was a spec warehouse and to protect it as an empty
building and after they were done the owner would lease it to the PODS
franchisee. His comment was "I don't know if that protects me or not"
Legally?
Morally I feel bound to walk away from this project but that just means
that
they will find someone else to do the job incorrectly and although there
is
no liability involved, there is still the knowledge that the building
(Ord.
Group II) will be grossly under protected.
I know the argument that we are not police of the industry nor can we 2nd
guess what the potential future occupancy of a building is or may be one
day, but this is different and one of the 2 scenarios listed above is
going
to happen on this project.
Thanks for your input,
Greg
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850
Fax: 850-937-1852
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Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
860-535-2080
www.fpdc.com
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