Yes but the problem went away after we never heard anything more from the AHJ once he left on his "free cruise" on that Portuguese freighter.
But if you're using NFPA 13r, 2007, check out 6.9.6, it omits sprinklers in elevator machine rooms and non-combustible shafts that comply with ASME A17.1. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Group Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lg.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Olson Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 2:15 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA I have just the opposite problem. Condo building designed per 13R so no heads required in elevator but the elevator inspectors wishes to be the fire inspector and is requiring sprinklers in the pit and machine room. Problem is the elevator and machine room are basically detached from the rest of the building separated by an out side walk way and there is no way to install sprinklers without the potential for freezing. Inspector says that if there are sprinklers installed in the building the elevator must have sprinklers per NFPA 13. When I try to explain that the sprinklers are designed per NFPA 13R not 13 he says that ASME 17.1 only references NFPA 13 so he is not aware of 13R so sprinklers are required per 13. Has anyone else had a similar problem? Kurt Olson East Coast Fire Protection -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Canham Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 7:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA They keep it simple in Mass. No sprinklers are allowed in the shaft or mechanical room. If they are existing they need to be removed. Dave Canham -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Williams - work Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 3:14 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA Can of worms time..... Do we design to the Standard (NFPA) or the Code (ICC or other document adopted by the Jurisdiction)? If the Code modifies the Standard and adds sprinklers, we would include them without question. Do we do the same if sprinklers are omitted by the Code? At 02:38 PM 4/3/2007, you wrote: >I'm not trying to be difficult, (I don't think) but if NFPA 13 requires it, >the only correct way to design it is with a head in the pit whether the AHJ >or the EoR show it or require it. Unless the AHJ has some written variance >that has been adopted. It is our responsibility as "layout technicians" to >follow the code. > >Am I the only one on the forum that feels that way today? Maybe I should go >fishing or something! > >Cliff > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Harris >Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 1:07 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA > >I guess I should have worded that a little better but it was almost lunch >time and I was on my way out the door. The majority of the jobs we do the >AHJ does not require a head in the pit for whatever reason. If the Engineer >of Record does not call one out, and they rarely do, then we do not add one, >I do agree though that if there is known combustible hydraulic fluid in the >shaft a head should be installed. > > > > Regards, > > Brian Harris > >First Defense Fire Protection > > Design Engineer > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 704.948.3506 phone > > 704.948.3507 fax > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cliff >Whitfield >Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:39 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA > > > >Brian, > > > >I'm not sure where you get your info on this but NFPA 13 (02) 8.14.5.1 > >requires heads in the pit unless that pit meets the requirements of > >8.14.5.2. > > > >As Chuck mentioned, nearly all of the hydraulic fluids used for non-cable > >operated elevators is combustible. You have to put them in to meet NFPA 13. > >What the GC does after that is his business but if he wants you to take it > >out, make sure you get written direction to do it and keep it in your files > >along with your letter of objection. > > > >Cliff > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Harris > >Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 11:12 AM > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: RE: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA > > > >Chuck, > >It's 80 and sunny here in North Carolina...... > > > >Unless otherwise directed by the AHJ the rule of thumb is no sprinklers > >required in the pit, only in the machine room for hydraulic type elevators. > > > > Regards, > > Brian Harris > >First Defense Fire Protection > > Design Engineer > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 704.948.3506 phone > > 704.948.3507 fax > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Haugen, > >Charles > >Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:07 PM > >To: [email protected]; > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Elevator Inspectors vs. Piping Installation per NFPA > > > >It's snowing again in Fargo! > >I know this has been asked before... I apologize. > > > >I have looked through NFPA 13, '99, '02, and '07 editions regarding > >protection in the pit... I've been on the phones w/ A.H.J.'s regarding > >their takes on protection... and the war that's waged w/ the Elevator > >inspector NOT wanting anything in the pit OR the elev. mech. room. When > >asking the elevator installers regarding if they're using > >'noncombustible hydraulic fluids' we get the deer in the headlights look > >followed by a "...does that even exist?" comment. There has been a time > >or two where we have been instructed by the Elev. Inspector to remove > >all piping in these areas after the Fire Inspector has been through. > > > >What to do? I recall that there were talks about this during the NFPA > >meeting?? Correct? > > > >Chuck > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, Connecticut 860-535-2080 www.fpdc.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
