Leif,
The committee was eliminated when the separate storage standards were
rolled into 13, quite some time ago. The 13 committee simply copied the
standard as it existed, with the exception of fixing a few glaring
errors. TIAs are issued only for very critical issues, as they don't
always get to the right people. A formal interpretation is issued only
when someone requests it, which apparently hasn't happened. The only way
the standard can be changed is for someone to submit a proposal during
the revision cycle. This issue doesn't seem to have caused enough
confusion for it to be brought to the attention of the committee so far.
Yocertainly can (and should) either request a formal interpretation or a
proposal to change the standard.
As I said, portable racks are simply racks,that aren't fixed to the
floor and their normal configuration is multiple row. A fire can't tell
whether they move or not.
Joe
Leif Glans wrote:
Hi Joe!
Thank you for your info.
Was this committee eliminated just shortly or some time ago?
NFPA 13 2007 is still having this same rules as 2002 ed. and I can not find
a TIA or a FI on this topic? Shouldn't there be one?
Best regards/ Leif Glans
-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För Joe Hankins
Skickat: den 25 augusti 2007 16:52
Till: [email protected]
Ämne: Re: SV: Rubber tire storage
Portable racks have always been treated as multiple-row racks because
that's the way they behave in a fire. (Some people want to call them
palletized storage when they are simply a pallet with a metal frame, but
the space between the top of storage on one level and the bottom of the
pallet on the next level is what makes it rack storage, whether they are
fixed or moveable). The nonsensical differentiation between portable
rack storage of tires and fixed rack storage of tires was made by the
tire storage committee, which did a number of "unusual" things before it
was eliminated.
Leif Glans wrote:
Thank You Roland for your answer.
Perhaps I do not understand, but I can not find limitation of area of
storage of rubber tires on portable rack storage either.
Table 12.4.2(b) is for both palletized portable rack storage and fixed
rack
storage.
The figure A.3.11.9(b)(2002 edition NFPA 13) shows picture of palletized
portable rack. For me this look likes a wooden pallet with steel bars.
3.10.8.4 (2002 edition NFPA 13) states: Racks that are not fixed in place.
They can be arranged in any number of combinations. So if I understand
this
correctly one can store these units beside and on each other. Much like
figure A.3.11.9(f) with the difference of wooden pallets and steel bars
which forms the typical palletized portable rack unit.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the only difference I can find is that if one put the
tires in portable racks one can store them higher and with less water
demand
for storage up to 10ft
(0.32gpm/ft² over 2000ft² vs 0.30 gpm/ft² over 2500ft²)
For dry systems the difference will be even bigger
(0.32gpm/ft² over 2600ft² vs 0.30 gpm/ft² over 3250ft²).
Perhaps, I should just leave it be and go with info in these tables even
though it does not make sense to me.
Best regards/ Leif Glans
-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För Roland Huggins
Skickat: den 24 augusti 2007 18:14
Till: [email protected]
Ämne: Re: Rubber tire storage
The criteria has been around a while and I wasn't involved with it's
development so I am proceeding just on logic (and we all know logic
doesn't allows rule - lol)
Table 12.4.2(a) Section 1(a) has no real limits on pile size and more
importantly no breaks along its length so a larger remote is
required. Table 12.4.2(b) Racks have a flue space providing a small
but important gap every 4 feet or so. For these a smaller remote is
allowed.
Roland
On Aug 24, 2007, at 8:01 AM, Leif Glans wrote:
Hallo all!
I have a situation with rubber tire storage for industrial trucks.
The tires
are roughly 2m high and stored on side in one level (on-tread?) The
storage
is on a loading dock and has a roof above it.
The roof is roughly 8.5m high next to the factory and slopes
outwards 2/12.
If one uses area density design under NFPA 13 2007:
Looking at table 18.4(a):
(2) states .30 gpm/ft² over 2500 ft² for ordinary and high temperature
sprinklers
However, if I tell manufacturer to store their tires on wooden
pallets like Figure A3.9.4.9(b), I can use row (3) in table 18.4(a)
which
states to see table 18.4(b). In 18.4(b) one "only" need .32 gpm/ft²
over
2000ft².
Does this make sense to you?
Normally wooden pallets would increase the intensity due to more
air or am I
wrong?
Dry systems design area will of course be increased by 30%.
However the difference between the two design areas would be even
bigger
2000*1.3 vs. 2500*1.3.
Have a nice weekend/ Leif Glans
www.lg-sprinklerkonsulten.com
LG Sprinklerkonsulten
PG Vejdes vag 15
S-351 96 Vaxjo
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Fax: +46 470-74 50 26
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