WOW, if we did not bid this way we would conservatively bid 45% of the jobs
incorrectly (due to incorrect drawings), 5% correctly and we would just not
bid the other 50% because there is no criteria to go by.
We do lose some work to the shortcutters and it stinks.

Greg

Living Water Fire Protection, LLC
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850
Fax: 850-937-1852


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 10:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Contractor or Consultant

How can anyone put a bid together without having some criteria to
follow?  If each contractor comes up with his own scheme the bids would
be meaningless since you probably won't have apples to apples to
compare.  

I would be very leery of that whole deal.  They can shortcut the process
and just put some sprinklers in the room and come out real cheap but all
the while not have a system that would be worth anything.  But they can
low-ball the bid and then come back after the contract is signed to
negotiate the change order for what the Underwriter really wants and
what will really work.

If you try to do it the right way you probably won't be low bidder and
most owners reviewing the bids won't know the difference between one bid
or the other, they'll just be looking at the price.

You just can't win in those types of situations, and have to ask
yourself if it's even worth the time and effort.


Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC  29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.lg.com


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dewayne
Martinez
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Contractor or Consultant

I am asking as a contractor.  In Wisconsin, the fire protection
contractor is often asked to determine the design criteria for projects.
I have argued with my superiors that if it is out of our area of
expertise, we should consult a professional engineer to provide a design
criteria.  They tell me that it is just for a bid and that companies
x,y,z have put together numbers without consulting a professional.  I
still have trouble believing in the "just wing it" theory of sales.  
Sorry for the rant....
Dewayne 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roland
Huggins
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 10:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Contractor or Consultant

Are you asking as a CONTRACTOR or a CONSULTANT?  Our industry often
blurrs that line without considering the ramifications (ie type and
amount of insurance, whether your current insurance actually covers
making that decision, etc).  When someone ask WHAT KIND OF SYSTEM should
be used, does the Forum consider that a contractor or a consultant
question?

Roland

On Dec 5, 2007, at 6:52 AM, Dewayne Martinez wrote:

> We have been asked to provide a quote for fire protection of a room 
> (80'
> x 25' x 50' high) that contains 2 very large oil-cooled transformers.
> This room is located inside an unheated steel manufacturing building.
> The entire building right now is unsprinklered.  The insurer for the 
> business has requested fire protection for the room containing the 
> transformers only.  I read an article that suggested using NFPA 15 and

> provide exposure protection but it also stated that oil-filled 
> transformers should be located outside the building.  What is the best

> way to protect this room?  Is fire protection now required thought the

> building?
> Thanks,
> Dewayne
>
>
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