As a retired FF I might have an opinion. FF aren't dying from building
construction. About 100 +- die a year. 40 something die from heart, stroke
or exhaustion. 20 something die in vehicles going to or from calls.
Another couple die in training. Another couple while on duty cleaning the
station, etc. So we're left with about 30 that die from the fire itself.
Now take that and divide it up between flashover, getting lost and running
out of air, commercial vs. residential, wood vs. steel and new wood vs. old
wood or the variety of other ways to die in a fire. At most a few die in
collapses of light weight wood construction. Tragic yes but an epidemic to
fix NO! I welcome the day when the construction is what we have to worry
about. Unless you lit the fire it self you have no way to gauge safer or not
in a relative comparison between the factors of risk. All things being
equal yes old construction lasts longer than new. But all things are not
ever equal.
Many fire fighter deaths and injuries are very preventable. Many times you
have to ask what were they doing in there in the first place. There ain't
much to save in a single family home with any kind of fire. All FF's have
given themselves high fives for a great save only to see the bull dozers
come out the next day and level what's left. IMHO the fire services many
times put on an elaborate show to easy public fears for fire and justify all
the shiny new trucks and equipment. It's not a deliberate conspiracy it's
one of those subtle things. Sociologists probably have a big fancy name for
it and it covers more than fire issues.
Be careful about comparing other cultures to ours when it comes to fire.
For example Europe and certain part of Asia are much more fire safe than we
are in the US. They don't have nearly as many fires as we do per capita.
Many of the large cities have less than 1/4 and maybe even 1/10 of the
firefighting staff we would have in a comparable city. And with few
exceptions they have better fire statistics.
They are much more fire prevention oriented. I remember a few years ago the
fire chief in Tokyo (?) resigned in disgrace because of some "big" increase
in fire or maybe deaths. In a city of what 10 million it was like 2 deaths
from fire. Whatever the details it was so small by our standards it would
not have even made the news.
Chris Cahill, P.E.
Fire Protection Engineer
Sentry Fire Protection, Inc.
763-658-4483
763-658-4921 fax
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mail: P.O. Box 69
Waverly, MN 55390
Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW
Waverly, MN 55390
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 4:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Existing inventory/relative age
The amount of unsprinklered housing inventory is no doubt vastly higher on
Stewart's side of the pond, where its not unusual to stay in a farmhouse
from the 1600's. We get wrapped up in our own society, where we on the east
coast see numerous buildings from the 1700's; never been to Seattle, but
doubt there's much from the Revolutionary period.
We have pockets of success like Scottsdale, but in the continuum of history,
15 years of sprinklered residences is even a smaller % than the # of sprkr'd
homes vrs unspkr'd in US. Certainly far easier to stay in sprinklered hotels
in the States than most anywhere we've been.
Too early for me to figure out which side of which pond Jack's on :)
Wonder if firefighters aren't far safer entering an old home of dimensional
lumber vrs a modern (unsprinklered) home with TJI floor system, regardless
of sheetrock barriers; far less chance of floor collapse, I'd imagine.
glc
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Kilavuz
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Another Save [Virus checked]
Ron
That's an old building 3-4 storey high in Ludwigshafen. Timber stairs
burnt and collapsed before people got out, so there was a picture with a
baby thrown down to authorities before the parents jumped down the 3rd
floor window!
I remember there were a lot of old buildings in Germany, I have seen many
in Munich, Berlin, Frankfurt, Paris, Rome dating back to WW2 era, still in
use as cheap accommodation. They would be below spec even in 60s, but
authorities could not force owners to upgrade them before they could lease
out. I have seen similar buildings in a lot of cities (perhaps not that old
but close), including my home town, Istanbul.
Cheers
Jack C Kilavuz
"Ron Greenman"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
l.com> To
Sent by: [email protected]
sprinklerforum-bo cc
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
er.org Subject
Re: Another Save [Virus checked]
05/02/2008 09:58
AM
Please respond to
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Stewart,
That would be a "social club" hereabouts. There was an apartment
building fire in Germany yesterday or this morning that killed nine
(two children), left many homeless and made the international news
(NPR--Washington DC bureau and not the BBC feed).
On 2/4/08, Todd Williams - FPDC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What want to know is how many people were at the club when the fire
started.
>
>
> At 12:03 PM 2/4/2008, you wrote:
> >Hello sprinklerforum,
> >
> >Near the bottom of the page
> >http://www.topix.net/content/kri/2008/02/in-our-towns-2
> >
> >MYRTLE BEACH
> >
> >Sprinklers put out gentlemen's club fire
> >
> >The Myrtle Beach Fire Department received a call at about 5:24 p.m.
> >Saturday about a fire at the Masters Gentlemen's Club on 10th Avenue
> >North, said Myrtle Beach fire Battalion Chief Bob Derr.
> >
> >Upon investigation, fire officials learned the club's sprinkler system
> >had put out the fire before fire officials arrived at the scene, Derr
said.
> >
> >There was a lot of smoke in the building, but no one was hurt, he said.
> >About 10 to 15 people were at the club when fire officials arrived at
the
> >scene. Derr would not disclose where the fire started because officials
> >still are investigating the cause.
> >
> >--
> >Best regards,
> > Charles mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Coastal Fire Protection
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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>
> Todd G. Williams, PE
> Fire Protection Design/Consulting
> Stonington, Connecticut
> www.fpdc.com
> 860.535.2080
> _______________________________________________
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--
Ron Greenman
at home....
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