Of f the top of my head we're currently doing 8 projects of type V
construction. This is far more common than most people think. (Mostly mixed
use) 3000sf design on one floor, 4 head Res. on the next.
Thom McMahon
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488-2136
Tel: 970-879-7952
Fax: 970-879-7926
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Huggins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: residential heads in a 13 system
I've given up on trying to predict what the TC would do. Unless a hook
can be found to LOOSELY attach it to a proposal, only the TIA route is
open for this cycle. This cycle being the 2010 edition. Since this is
an explicit KNOWN allowance in the standard, it would be challenging to
legitimately claim that it is an emergency. It can still move forward
without that part passing but it's harder.
No one called it a flaw. Some of the things said were: It defies logic
(guess who -lol) and apparently the magical residential sprinkler
doesn't have the same problem.
I am not claiming anything here but some things inadvertently happen.
For instance, we took a sprinkler that was developed for regular
residential dwellings and then allowed it to be applied in a high rise
building. This was when the fire test for its listing stopped at 10
minutes. This remained the case until another test lab raised questions
about rooms flashing over during lab tests at the 0.035 densities levels.
This lead to changes to the allowed foams used for the test.
Additionally a minimum discharge of 0.05 was imposed (just like when we
once allowed less than 7 psi for residential sprinklers) as well as
having to calculate it at 0.1 using the SXL method. Some time later the
test was also extended to 30 minutes but that didn't really impact things
like the other changes. BACK TO THE ISSUE AT HAND. The 3,000 sf has
been part of 13 a long time under the occupancy hazard approach. Back
when we had NFPA 231C etc, it was questionable whether it applied even to
storage. That was resolved in the 2007 edition when it was added to chap
12. Once residential was recognized as being acceptable for all
residential dwelling including 13 systems, it was added as an alternate
and equally acceptable approach to using spray sprinklers. The link to
the 3000 sf issue was not part of the change so laid dormant. It IS a
known issue and as identified in the Sprinkler Handbook, the 3000 sf does
not apply. Having said that, I am going to be shocked if it doesn't
change (though not necessarily this cycle).
Truth be told, though, how many 13 systems using residential have non-
protected concealed combustible spaces? Never say never but the lower
height buildings get almost all the trade-up using a 13R so why do a 13
(yes there is always site driven issues in SoCal etc) and the high rises
being Type I, how often is this an issue. I did start that as a
rhetorical question but makes sense to ask the Forum for their
experience. After all, during the recent ROP meeting when discussing
Boat Storage I commented that Boat storage often uses the rack to support
the roof whereas warehouses don't. Guess I should have said it didn't
back when I was directly involved with them.
Roland
On Feb 6, 2008, at 10:34 AM, Thom McMahon wrote:
Roland:
If the Committee is considering changes to the Res. / 3000 Sf
application area, would that come as a TIA to the 2007, or wait for the
next full cycle?
I was talking to another committee member that thought it would move
pretty fast, to correct what they saw as a flaw.
Thom McMahon
Firetech, Inc.
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