Perhaps it is time to incorporate a bucket test requirement and test method into 13D prior to the widespread installation of these systems based on an ICC code change. If failures are widespread I think this is important enough for a TIA if there's any chance the ICC will reference a current edition of 13D. The implications are huge if large numbers of 13D systems are expected to fail after being engineered and installed by qualified plumbers/sprinkler companies.
Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146 410-544-3620 Phone 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: What is a Bucket Test? From: "Tom Duross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Mon, April 14, 2008 11:05 am To: <[email protected]> Back in the late eighties and early nineties, virtually every D and R system we did or designed got a bucket test. I still have my graduated buckets and pendent tubes we used. There's a couple of towns here in MA that still require them. I don't remember being waived on an R multi-family system back when they were all following what the Cobb Cty. Chief advised. I seem to remember every one of these systems were being bucket tested. We never failed a single one but I know some did. Tom Duross Go Red Sox :) I personally don't design SFDs but have seen sprinkler plans for many of them (and I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night). The architectural, structural, mechanical plans, etc. are generally very simple and lacking the type of detail you'd expect on a commercial project. Likewise, the sprinkler plans tend to be simple - mains & branchlines drawn as nice strait lines with few or no offsets. Then you get to the jobsite and, 'Hey, where'd that duct come from. Gotta 90 around it." "Hey, who added the vaulted ceiling, gotta add a couple 90's to get above it." I can think of 2 basic reasons a sprinkler system would fail a bucket test. 1) Out of necessity, the fitter installed more pipe & fittings than the designer calced for. 2) The underground supply isn't as hydraulically friendly as it's supposed to be. Small diameter copper (especially the coiled type) is notorious for being installed with seemingly minor kinks that restrict water flow. Pressure losses through meters can be significantly more than many calcs allow for. This takes me back to a recent thread concerning code changes that will require sprinkler installation in all new SFDs. Just like in Cobb County, THERE WILL BE A LEARNING CURVE for the new installation contractors (sprinkler, plumber, or whatever). Designers need to allow for extra pipe & fitting. Installers need to think ahead & coordinate so extra pipe & fittings are kept to a minimum. Underground services have to be installed correctly. I personally think bucket tests on 13D installations are a good thing. Nobody want to do it and nobody wants to fail it. Unfortunately, as in Cobb County, it becomes part of the 'training' for designers & installers. And when all SFDs require sprinklers, we're going to need a lot of that. Ed Kramer Littleton, CO > Mike, > > Now we are at the heart of the matter. If the bucket test results in a > surprising number of failures, what is the explanation for this? Is it > the way the standard is written, is the bucket test technically flawed? > > Seems this would be a great senior research project to figure this out. > I don't understand a surprisingly high failure rate when system design > is performed by competent FP firms. > > Bill Brooks > > William N. Brooks, P.E. > > It was surprising the number of systems that failed when the test was > preformed. > > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
