Maybe incorporating the bucket test is the right idea, considering the proposed ICC Code Modification referencing Multipurpose Fire Sprinkler Systems in one and two family dwellings. Rumor is it may pass at the Minneapolis ICC conference in September. If not this time, one day soon. This may very well open the door to a lot of "less than qualified" installers.
The proposed amendment (as was forwarded to me): http://www.georgiafiresprinkler.org/downloads/pdf/MultiPurposeFireSprink lerSystems.pdf Bobby McCullough, Allsouth Sprinkler Company [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.allsouthprinkler.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: What is a Bucket Test? (TIA Needed) This "TEST" was a conditional method when 13D was new. I have not seen a bucket test that failed, when required, in the last 15 years. AHJ's are more savvy, Contractors are more cautious, and know that the field guys will be adding ells. Some just add extra ells in the calc's and others don't use the full residual pressure as allowed in 13D. Maybe the bucket test would be ok if hydraulic calc's are not required, but is a waste of time and money for Qualified Designers and layout Tech's, Installers, and AHJ's. Thom McMahon Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr Steamboat Springs, CO 80488-2136 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:05 AM Subject: RE: What is a Bucket Test? (TIA Needed) > Perhaps it is time to incorporate a bucket test requirement and test > method into 13D prior to the widespread installation of these systems > based on an ICC code change. If failures are widespread I think this is > important enough for a TIA if there's any chance the ICC will reference > a current edition of 13D. The implications are huge if large numbers of > 13D systems are expected to fail after being engineered and installed by > qualified plumbers/sprinkler companies. > > Bill Brooks > > William N. Brooks, P.E. > Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. > 372 Wilett Drive > Severna Park, MD 21146 > 410-544-3620 Phone > 410-544-3032 FAX > 412-400-6528 Cell > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: RE: What is a Bucket Test? > From: "Tom Duross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Mon, April 14, 2008 11:05 am > To: <[email protected]> > > Back in the late eighties and early nineties, virtually every D and R > system > we did or designed got a bucket test. I still have my graduated buckets > and > pendent tubes we used. There's a couple of towns here in MA that still > require them. I don't remember being waived on an R multi-family system > back when they were all following what the Cobb Cty. Chief advised. I > seem > to remember every one of these systems were being bucket tested. We > never > failed a single one but I know some did. > > Tom Duross > Go Red Sox > :) > > I personally don't design SFDs but have seen sprinkler plans for many of > them (and I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night). The architectural, > structural, mechanical plans, etc. are generally very simple and lacking > the > type of detail you'd expect on a commercial project. Likewise, the > sprinkler plans tend to be simple - mains & branchlines drawn as nice > strait > lines with few or no offsets. Then you get to the jobsite and, 'Hey, > where'd that duct come from. Gotta 90 around it." "Hey, who added the > vaulted ceiling, gotta add a couple 90's to get above it." > > I can think of 2 basic reasons a sprinkler system would fail a bucket > test. > 1) Out of necessity, the fitter installed more pipe & fittings than the > designer calced for. > 2) The underground supply isn't as hydraulically friendly as it's > supposed > to be. Small diameter copper (especially the coiled type) is notorious > for > being installed with seemingly minor kinks that restrict water flow. > Pressure losses through meters can be significantly more than many calcs > allow for. > > This takes me back to a recent thread concerning code changes that will > require sprinkler installation in all new SFDs. Just like in Cobb > County, > THERE WILL BE A LEARNING CURVE for the new installation contractors > (sprinkler, plumber, or whatever). Designers need to allow for extra > pipe & > fitting. Installers need to think ahead & coordinate so extra pipe & > fittings are kept to a minimum. Underground services have to be > installed > correctly. > > I personally think bucket tests on 13D installations are a good thing. > Nobody want to do it and nobody wants to fail it. Unfortunately, as in > Cobb > County, it becomes part of the 'training' for designers & installers. > And > when all SFDs require sprinklers, we're going to need a lot of that. > > Ed Kramer > Littleton, CO >> Mike, >> >> Now we are at the heart of the matter. If the bucket test results in a >> surprising number of failures, what is the explanation for this? Is it >> the way the standard is written, is the bucket test technically flawed? >> >> Seems this would be a great senior research project to figure this out. >> I don't understand a surprisingly high failure rate when system design >> is performed by competent FP firms. >> >> Bill Brooks >> >> William N. Brooks, P.E. >> >> It was surprising the number of systems that failed when the test was >> preformed. >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
