Thom, Yeah I understand the reason for the cracked concrete, although I have not heard of sprinkler systems falling to the floor in concrete buildings. It seems like they are fixing something that isn't broke.
I don't know about the rest of the forum but this is a pretty big deal for us. We are starting a 35 story post tension concrete high rise. The Kwik Bolt requires about a 2.5" deep penetration so all the PT cables are in danger. What are the odds of drilling 15,000 holes and not hitting a cable. We are also starting a big twin tee parking garage. The top of the tees is only 1.5" thick before the topping slab goes on. Is anyone with a lot of experience with seismic bracing out there, Steve Layton? Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Sprinkler Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 4:10 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: The sky is falling Ron: You need to be a member of American Concrete institute to access all of ACI 318-08, but their web site does say that there are changes expected to the 08 document from the public comment period. The ICC web site also has it For Sale at http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=ACI+318-08&sp-a=00020177-sp00000000 &sp- f=ISO-8859-1&sp-c=10&Search.x=9&Search.y=9 I have not read it however if my guess is right, the reason for cracked concrete is that "It will be cracked after a seismic event, even if it isn't when you install the anchor" With that as a basis of design I would say it will apply to all hangers in a seismic structure. Sure hope someone from Hangers and bracing steps up and fields this one. But I've been wrong before! Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fletcher, Ron Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 2:50 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: The sky is falling Hi Thom, Do you know if ACI 318-05 requires anchors be tested in cracked concrete? Hilti referenced ACI 318-08 as the driving force for testing anchors in cracked concrete. I'm trying to find a copy ACI 318-05, the 05 edition is referenced by IBC 2006, so far no luck. If this applies to seismic loads wouldn't we still be able to use HDI's for hangers and just use the TZ for EQB attachments? Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Sprinkler Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thom McMahon Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 1:30 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: The sky is falling Apparently this is driven by the 2006 IBC. The 2006 changed the system of testing for mechanical fasteners, you can check their (IBC) web site for approved fasteners. This is mechanical fasteners only. The TZ has been tested and approved. The 2006 has no criteria for testing Power driven studs, and I believe says "Outside the scope" of this document or outside scope for seismic, something like that. Hilti has not tested the HDI or HDI-P to the new criteria yet, so they are not approved by the building code where 2006 is applicable. Thom McMahon, SET Firetech, Inc. 2560 Copper Ridge Dr P.O. Box 882136 Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 Tel: 970-879-7952 Fax: 970-879-7926 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fletcher, Ron Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 1:45 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: The sky is falling Anyone else out there heard from Hilti about no longer using their HDI to hang pipe from the bottom of cracked concrete in seismic categories C-F? We had a (the sky/pipe is falling) presentation from Hilti about using their new TZ Kwik Bolt instead of the HDI, HDI-P or powder drive pins. They leave you with the impression that all pipe supports must be changed to the TZ, they even sighted two projects in AZ where the contractors had to abandon the installed HDI's and reinstall the TZ. I have been doing some research on their presentation and I don't think their claims will stand the light of day but I would like some other opinions. I would be glad to PM Hilti's power point presentation to any interested parties. I wonder if the marketing guru that got backflows required on Class 1 & 2 sprinkler systems went to work for Hilti? Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Phoenix, AZ _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
