Somehow we've ventured far away from the original issue, a cabinet with shelves two feet apart. Not a closet, not an entertainment center, more of something to put clothes or towels or linens or a portable meth lab into. If the shelves are only two feet apart where is the sprinkler going to go? If you put a sprinkler at the top of the cabinet what is the sprinkler going to do three levels down, probably nothing. What good is a shelf with a 3"-4" obstruction in it? With even the most creative of arguments it would a struggle to convince anyone that protection would be required in light of what is so clearly spelled out in the Standard.
But there is always the exceptionally enlightened AHJ that might argue down some other path. <sigh> Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 10:27 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Closets / cabinets I tend to agree with Allen if I'm understanding his argument correctly. And correct me if I'm misstating the thought but I don't think he meant that the recess did not necessarily have to have separate protection but that the floor area had to be accounted for by some sprinkler. If I buy a free standing entertainment center I have a potential fire hazard (lots of plugs and cords) and the area of the building it occupies is protected by the overhead system. I am not going to worry about a fire inside it until that fire breaches the cabinet itself. By the same token if I have a built-in entertainment center I have the same hazard and must consider the building area it occupies if the fire breaches the cabinet. If that occurs then the building must be protected (protecting the cabinet in both cases is my concern, not society's, and could be addressed by a wonder gas if I so desire). Now if I use a former closet for my cabinet, using a face frame, with or without doors, and the former closet door lintel is an obstruction, and the closet does not meet any of the closet exemption rules then it would require a sprinkler on the closet side of the lintel. The same issues would apply if I just put a free standing cabinet in the closet opening. The cabinet parts are just a distraction in this discussion. The issues are the lintel (i.e.: obstruction) and sprinkler spacing rules. On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 6:59 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So based on that would you provide a sprinkler below every shelf in order to > adequately protect it? If we're going to hold to code, then you need to look > at shelf storage requirements. > > If you read the description of the revision, I read it that the open floor > area of the closet will now be part of the shelf system cabinet. There is no > floor open to the room, there are doors on the unit. > > And protecting closet, well I can kind of accept, but a shelving unit with > doors on the front, with no floor, well sorry but that just sounds silly. > > At some point reason needs to prevail. > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - > 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allan > Seidel > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 9:44 AM > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: Re: Closets / cabinets > > In situations like this the room's floor area now extends into the former > closet's footprint. Therefore the sprinkler coverage needs to account for > this recess in the wall. In other words if you call it furniture then it must > occupy a space as furniture would. As we all well know, the standard cannot > fit every situation, but there needs to be some accounting for these > conditions that would make sense for the AHJ. For an extreme example, I do > not think there would be an agreement to ignore former closets as such > (assume they were 36" deep) when EC sprinklers are used at their maximum > distance from the wall where the closets were. > > Allan Seidel > St. Louis, MO > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 7:29 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> It's furniture. No sprinklers within. Well, unless someone is going >> to occupy it. >> >> NFPA 13, 2007, 8.1(7) >> >> [cid:658182813@05112008-3391] >> >> >> >> >> >> Craig L. Prahl, CET >> Fire Protection Specialist >> Mechanical Department >> CH2MHILL >> Lockwood Greene >> 1500 International Drive >> PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - >> 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ch2m.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Myles Knebel >> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:09 AM >> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >> Subject: Re: Closets / cabinets >> >> Good question. I would say,"the closet is now a cabinet". I looked up >> cabinets in the index however I could not find 8.9.4.1.3.3. in the >> 2007 addition (missing). >> No references say anything about sprinklers inside cabinets so in my >> opinion the cabiets don't need to be sprinklered. >> >> Ergo >> >> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:21 PM, A.P.Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > >> > An office (light hazard) has several closets that have existing >> sprinklers. >> > Part of the renovation is to remove the closet doors and provide >> > built-in millwork recessed into the closet space. Essentially a >> > storage cabinet made of wood with shelves at about every 2 feet and >> > wooden doors. Is there any logical argument to provide or not >> > provide sprinklers within this space? As a general rule we don't >> > sprinkler furniture (although I don't think NFPA says it explicitly). Any >> > comments? >> > >> > Tony >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
