Ron, I'm with ya on this one. I've been dealing with this same stuff today with the electrical rooms. Same old song, accidental sprinkler discharge, electrocution from sprinkler discharge, standing water, blah, blah, blah...............
Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Specialist Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:02 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: mixed systems This sounds like a requirement from the electrical engineer fearing water damage from the sprinklers on his precious equipment but not caring a whit about hose streams or the concept that a fire might damage the switch. He is adding cost for no increased value but he can charge for thinking this kind of c**p up. If this device is so critical for airport operations that it can't get wet during a fire in an area it occupies then he is being negligent in just considering one potential source of hazard. If he's worried about accidental discharge I can cite numbers of pre-action systems causing dollar losses, caused by going off at the wrong time or not going off at the right time, due to poor or inadequate maintenance directly related to their complexity. The most recent I know personally of resulted in a low seven figure loss due to interrupted productivity while the maintenance technician shut a substation down multiple times during IT&M. Leaky sprinklers (one in 13M?) rarely result in any appreciable damage and an inadvertent discharge is typically caused by carelessness. I am way fed up with this superstitious fear of pervasive water damage vampires. I'd like some stats that show how many sprinkler heads discharged for how many hours of sprinkler when not wanted since, oh say,1920. compared to how many hours the total number of sprinkler heads installed since 1920 did not discharge, compared to those that did when they were supposed to. Let's take a guess: too little a number to be of significance for the first, 99.9+% for the next, and +/- 0.01% for the third. This is making mountains out of dust motes. Raving done. On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 1:25 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Yup, I concur with Chris. There may be other issues here but they're not > related to the fire sprinkler scope of work. > > Any reason not to make the so-called "hallway" preaction as well, what are > you talking about another 4-5 feet in width? > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - > 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris > Cahill > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 4:20 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: mixed systems > > I don't think we need more info. The code doesn't say anything, it's > perfectly fine. Want to play games put every other line on a different > system. Sprinkler code doesn't even require separations of any kind unless > using a room design method. Building Code separations are beyond us > contractors pay grade. > > And remember you only are calc'ing on system at a time. Yes a design density > may have to extend 15' beyond to another system but you still only calc one > system at a time. What might be interesting is say a 500 sq.ft. PA system > within a regular wet. Technically you don't have to calc the extra 1,000 > sq.ft. on the wet but you should. > > Now if she is questioning the EOR then more info is still not important nor > is the code one way or another. The EOR doesn't need a reason, unfortunately. > > Craig's follow up comments are certainly relevant to the FPE'ing but still > not related to the question does the code say no to splitting how ever you > want. Smoke issue could be addressed (DIPA), wetting electrical stuff (PA > with 20' overhang), oiled filled transformers might change the density but > not an issue with splitting a system however you want. > > Chris Cahill, P.E. > Fire Protection Engineer > Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. > > 763-658-4483 > 763-658-4921 fax > > Email: [email protected] > > Mail: P.O. Box 69 > Waverly, MN 55390 > > Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW > Waverly, MN 55390 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 2:59 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: mixed systems > > We need more info on what's going on and why. > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection Specialist > Mechanical Department > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - > 864.599.8439 [email protected] http://www.ch2m.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karen > Purvis > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 2:55 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: mixed systems > > Where in the code does it say that you cannot mix systems in an area. In > other words if I have a large room that a section of the room is separated by > a chain link fence and one side has a wet system and the other side needs a > preaction system. Where does it tell me I can't do that? > > > > Karen Purvis > > Senior Designer > > Facility Systems Consultants > > 713 South Central Street, > > Suite 101 > > Knoxville, TN 37902 > > ph.865-246-0164 > > fax 865-246-1084 > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, WSAFM _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
