Which is what I guess is the only thing I see out here in high rises: multiple risers, sprinkler mains looped between them on each floor, and dead-ended branch lines. I saw a brown cow and induced all cows were brown. My bad.
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Sprinkler Academy - C Bilbo <[email protected]> wrote: > > Oh, and the previous check valve requirement was for the vertical grids that > wre created between standpipes in a bunch of buildings out there. > > Heck, two supplies MUST be better than one!!! (Until you forget to close one > of the valves.... thus also the sign....) > > > > > > It should be recognized that the above is my opinion as a member of the NFPA > 13 Committee on Installation Criteria representing the NFSA, and has not been > processed as a formal interpretation in accordance with the NFPA Regulations > Governing Committee Projects and should therefore not be considered, nor > relied upon, as the official position of the NFPA, nor any of their technical > committees. > > Sincerely, > > > Cecil Bilbo > Academy of Fire Sprinkler Technology > Champaign, IL > 217-363-2460 > www.sprinkleracademy.com > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Check valves on floor control stations >> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:42:27 +0000 >> >> >> Brad and Damien, >> >> The new requirement for the check valve tracks with the NFPA 14 committee's >> desire to see one there. they had good reasons, because any water left in a >> system is a good thing for a couple of reasons. One, it will allow SOEMTHING >> to come out if there is a fire while the system is closed. Second, you >> wouldn't have to fill every floor of the building if you drained the entire >> building (and you wouldn't have to close each floor's control valve. That is >> a good thing. And if you don't have to clase a valve on each floor, then you >> won't forget to open one either. >> >> The 13 Committee was offended that the NFPA 14 Committee was trying to place >> a check on the Sprinkler System. (Tongue in Cheek....) But they eventually >> relented and agreed. >> >> >> >> >> >> It should be recognized that the above is my opinion as a member of the NFPA >> 13 Committee on Installation Criteria representing the NFSA, and has not >> been processed as a formal interpretation in accordance with the NFPA >> Regulations Governing Committee Projects and should therefore not be >> considered, nor relied upon, as the official position of the NFPA, nor any >> of their technical committees. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> Cecil Bilbo >> Academy of Fire Sprinkler Technology >> Champaign, IL >> 217-363-2460 >> www.sprinkleracademy.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------- >>> From: [email protected] >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: RE: Check valves on floor control stations >>> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:48:03 -0500 >>> >>> Thanks mike. So before checks were required for single connections, >>> individual floors could be tested with-out taking the rest of the floors out >>> of service. It seems the only reason they are required now is the 'drain >>> thing'. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Mike Henke [mailto:[email protected]] >>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 10:39 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: RE: Check valves on floor control stations >>> >>> Flowswitches will not operate if the water flows backward and they will >>> not be damaged either. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> mike >>> >>> Mike Henke CET >>> Sprinkler Product Manager >>> 1-800-325-3936 >>> 314-595-6740 Direct >>> www.pottersignal.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve >>> Leyton >>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 10:14 AM >>> To: [email protected]; [email protected] >>> Subject: RE: Check valves on floor control stations >>> >>> You can't have a single standpipe connection without a check valve. >>> >>> Steve Leyton >>> Protection Design & Consulting >>> San Diego, CA >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad >>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 7:56 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: RE: Check valves on floor control stations >>> >>> Sorry if this has been mentioned--- on a single stand pipe connection, >>> without the check valve, would it be possible to do an inspector's test >>> on >>> say, the 3rd floor, without moving the flow switch on the 2nd or 4th. >>> Would >>> a flow switch 'moving backwards' send a signal? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ron Greenman [mailto:[email protected]] >>> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 9:26 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Check valves on floor control stations >>> >>> Think about what a check valve is for--to confine the flow of water to >>> one direction only (trapping a section in the example given by Damien >>> is a secondary positive aspect but not the reason--many cows are brown >>> but not all). If you have a combined pipe on a low rise structure you >>> typically are using a single standpipe/riser combination. All flow is >>> in one direction and if your pipe fails you're screwed. If a high-rise >>> you'll have at least two combination pipes and if one fails you'll >>> still have water from at least one direction. So where you used to >>> have flow from two directions into a loop you now have flow from one >>> direction into the loop with essentially an open end. If you can't >>> check the flow to the open end you'll just have water flowing through >>> the floors and it would be similar to pumping into an FDC on a >>> sprinkler system that didn't have a check on the incoming feed line. >>> You'd just pump around in a circle. >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 6:26 AM, A.P.Silva wrote: >>>> Sorry, I meant '02 editions. That was my question. Whether check >>> valves >>> were >>>> required in '02? >>>> >>>> As for the difference in the figures, A8.17.4.2(b) is when you don't >>> have >>> a >>>> fire hose connection. So no contradiction. >>>> >>>> Tony >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd >>> Williams >>>> Sent: July 12, 2010 3:54 AM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: Check valves on floor control stations >>>> >>>> Not sure about the '03, but it was not the case in '02. An interesting >>> side >>>> note: in both the '07 and the '10 editions, figure >>>> A8.17.4.2(b) shows a floor control without a check valve, but figures >>>> A8.17.5.2.2(a) and (b) show the floor control with a check valve. >>>> Since the text supports the latter, that one wins. >>>> >>>> >>>> At 12:11 AM 7/12/2010, you wrote: >>>>>I think this requirement was from the '07 editions of 13 & 14, and was >>>>>not a requirement in the '03 editions. Can someone please confirm. >>>>> >>>>>Tony >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>[email protected] >>>>>http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>>> >>>>>For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>>To Unsubscribe, send an email >>>>>to:[email protected] >>>>>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>> >>>> Todd G. Williams, PE >>>> Fire Protection Design/Consulting >>>> Stonington, CT >>>> 860.535.2080 >>>> www.fpdc.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>> >>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >>> to:[email protected] >>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>> >>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >>> to:[email protected] >>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ron Greenman >>> Instructor >>> Fire Protection Engineering >>> Bates Technical College >>> Tacoma, WA >>> >>> Member: >>> AFT WA 4184/AFL-CIO, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, >>> WFC >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >>> to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >>> to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 5272 (20100712) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 5272 (20100712) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >>> to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: AFT WA 4184/AFL-CIO, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
