John, I see your point, but I personally like the Annex and commentary material contained within the standard. If a person reads it as it is intended there is no problem. As you know, the text of the document is what is required and the rest is there for guidance, suggestions (opinion of best practice), and maybe insight into what the intent is/was. Without the commentary and other additional "non-required" text we are all left to come up with our own decision on how to apply. This is fine for most of those on this forum and similar folks who care about doing things right and best, but I assume there are many others that are lone rangers that rely too heavily on their own intelligence and experience and really need additional guidance and explanation so they don't end up barking up the wrong tree. And yes, you are right, they could go to additional design publications and handbooks outside of the standard but it does add an additional step that is just not as convenient (and w e are all about what is convenient) :). I think of it in the same way as when I read my study Bible (although without the same weight). The large print on top of the page is God's Word and it is infallible and I am accountable for what it says. The small print commentary on the bottom of the page is man's words and although helpful at times, it is still man's words and I read it in a different way. The commentary provides insight and experience that I may have not thought of on my own just reading the text but I will not be judged according to what man says and I read it remembering this is coming from an imperfect man. I could go to my 3 volume set of commentaries also to help understand what the text is saying, (and I do) but it is sometimes less confusing and just easier if I can read it right there on the same page. To take this analogy too far (if I haven't already) :), the hypothetical AHJ you mentioned that requires things beyond the code, is akin to the religious Pharisee-type who uses the man-made stuff beyond what is in the 'standard' to make his/her own bible and expects the rest of us to follow him. In my opinion, we shouldn't throw out a good thing (commentary/annex) because of those that use it incorrectly, but I respect your point of view also.
Reed A. Roisum, CET Ulteig Engineers, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 8:47 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: fire pump room - external door? Reed, et.al. Most of us at one time or another have experienced an AHJ who requests items that aren't in the code. This is yet one example of how it happens. Yes I well understand that "Annex A is not a part of the requirements of this NFPA document", but that doesn't help when an AHJ insists; "well it's in the NFPA-20 book and coming from the experts at NFPA so it must be important or they wouldn't have recommended it so provide it". How many designers, contractors or building owners will argue enforceability with an AHJ to the point of an appeal or merely give up and provide the item to satisfy the AHJ ? Likewise if these same "recommendations" are that important why aren't they a requirement in the standard ?. It makes no sense that a technical document stipulate requirements in the body of the standard and then go beyond explaining the requirement with superfluous text in the annex. It almost sounds like, "well we couldn't get it in the standard so let's put it in the annex and hope someone does it this way." NFPA, I implore you to stick to the objective code requirements and leave the recommendations, opinions and other such material to design practice publications. Likewise the handbooks to the standards must only contain a concise explanation and or background of a requirement. I'm not knocking the committee but we need to get back to the basics. Respectfully, John Drucker, CET Fire Protection Subcode Official Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector Fire Marshals Office Borough of Red Bank, NJ -----Original Message----- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Reed Roisum Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:03 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: fire pump room - external door? Sorry I am so late to post. Note that the following is a should not a shall... NFPA 20, 07 ed. A.5.12 ...Access to the pump room should be provided from outside the building... Reed A. Roisum, CET Ulteig Engineers, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Dewayne Martinez Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 1:00 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: fire pump room - external door? Thanks guys, that is what I thought. -----Original Message----- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Tom Duross Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:07 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: fire pump room - external door? I believe that's a building code issue. Ours calls for protected egress if no direct access. TD Does a fire pump room, with a electric fire pump, that is located on a exterior wall require a exterior door? I know it is good practice to have one but this is an existing facility where a fire pump is being installed. Thanks, Dewayne _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
