Well, since everyone is guessing I'm willing also. Cover the floor area from sprinklers at the main ceiling level (you said that the "pocket" was 11' in the greater dimension) and 1, ignore the pocket or 2, put a head in the pocket, through magic and sleight of hand, apply the rule about not including the heads under roll-up doors. The situation is the same (except for the height issue) in that only the lower or higher head would fuse. I also saw a computer model from NIST on smoke travel relative to large and small, "atria," "pockets,) etc. On small stuff (and the maximum for small was pretty big) the smoke tended to begin to fill the higher area but also cross horizontally. Very rapidly a thermal barrier developed across the opening and the smoke (visible heat) banked against it and ceased to infiltrate the to the higher ceiling. So I started with guessing and I'm ending on that note.
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Thom <[email protected]> wrote: > Just my thoughts: 1) Your "Atrium" is too large to be a ceiling pocket 32SF > or less as allowed in the Reduced area for QR. 2) You don't say the ceiling > is sloped, not that it would matter if it when up to 23' because that also > exceeds what is allowed to be used when applying the reduction. 3) Unless > these areas are separated somehow or not located within the same > compartment, In which case by using multiple design areas to allow the > reduced area for QR where the "Atrium" is not located, my opinion is you > can't use the Area reduction for QR in this situation. > > Except: (4) There are no unprotected ceiling pockets as allowed by > 8.6.7 and 8.8.7 exceeding 32 ft2 (3 m2) > > So if you change the name of your "Atrium" to "Ceiling pocket" and protect > it, is the new layout (Symantec's) allowed to use the QR/Area reduction? > > 8.6.7 Ceiling Pockets. > 8.6.7.1 Sprinklers shall be required in all ceiling pockets. > 8.6.7.2 The requirements of 8.6.7.1 shall not apply where all > of the following are met: > (1) The total volume of the unprotected ceiling pocket does > not exceed 1000 ft3 (28.3 m3). > (2) The depth of the unprotected pocket does not exceed > 36 in. (914 mm). > (3) The entire floor under the unprotected ceiling pocket is > protected by the sprinklers at the lower ceiling elevation. > (4) Each unprotected ceiling pocket is separated from any > adjacent unprotected ceiling pocket by a minimum 10 ft > (3.05 m) horizontal distance. > (5) The unprotected ceiling pocket is constructed of noncombustible > or limited combustible construction. > (6) Skylights not exceeding 32 ft2 (3m2) shall be permitted to > have a plastic cover. > (7) Quick response sprinklers are utilized throughout the > compartment. > > So if as Roland say's "Word have meanings" and we can only know what the > word's say, not what the author "Intended". Well, it sounds like you place > sprinklers in the "Atrium", change its name to "Ceiling Pocket", and use the > area reduction. > > It is Friday right? > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman > Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 1:39 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: QR design area reduction > > Good question. Don't have an answer but I do have an opinion, but like > all opinions…. > > On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Ed Kramer <[email protected]> wrote: >> I've got a light hazard dining area with a 10'-6" ceiling which meets all >> the criteria for reducing the design area down to 912 sf. Well, almost > all >> the criteria. There is one small 'atrium' with a 23' ceiling height. The >> 'atrium' is only 6' x 11' and is protected by 1 sprinkler. >> >> >> >> Am I allowed to reduce the design area based on the 10'-6" ceiling height, >> or must I calculate a full 1,500 sf? Or more generically, how small must >> an area of higher ceiling be in order to ignore it when applying section >> 11.2.3.2.3? >> >> >> >> Opinions? >> >> >> >> Ed Kramer >> >> Littleton, CO >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
