How about providing 1) building height in stories, 2) building construction
type per IBC, 3) use groups per floor, 4) area per floor?  All of these are
important to giving you some internet guidance.

Bill Brooks

William N. Brooks, P.E.
Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc.
372 Wilett Drive
Severna Park, MD 21146-1904
410-544-3620
410-544-3032 FAX
412-400-6528 Cell


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rod DiBona
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: building code tradeoff

GC / Bill / Matt / Mike / Steve.....Thanks for responding. Sorry I forgot to
include the code reference. 2009 IBC. Flow test of 38/32/854. Architect has
verified that only the basement is required for this  occupancy however he
wants to sprinkler 1st and 2nd floor  but not the attic. This is a county
courthouse.

I hear you on the EOR / architect stuff. We are not stamping these prints so
there is some truth in what you are saying.....Probably should just pose my
sprinkler questions to him and let him respond back to us.  We have a
conference call next week and I wanted to know if this is correct so I
understood all of my options.  Also wanted to understand for future design
builds. Thought I understood it pretty well but now I am second guessing
myself.... Specific questions:

1.       If we do as requested and not protect the entire building per NFPA
#13 would we then put per "architects instructions" on the plans?

2.       IBC 2009  table 508.4 (required separations) says "buildings
protected throughout with an automatic sprinkler system installed in
accordance with section 903.3.1.1."....here is that text.... " Where the
provisions of this code require that a  building or portion thereof be
equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with
this section, sprinklers shall be installed throughout in accordance with
NFPA 13 except as provided  in section 903.3.1.1.1"  ....When it states
building or portion thereof be equipped throughout does that mean throughout
the building or just the "portion thereof?"

3.       Do we have to increase our area to 3,000 ft on the second floor due
to unsprinklered combustible concealed space in the attic (NFPA 13 2007 -
11.2.3.1.4(3))? 

If we have to increase our area we don't have the pressure without a pump. I
am afraid that the costs of the pump will outweigh the advantages of the
tradeoffs and he will revert us back to a basement system only. 

Thanks

Rod DiBona
Rapid Fire

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 4:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: building code tradeoff

Are you asking: 
what is proper protection under the IBC as a minimum?
What is required under #13?
What is the scope of work that you are to include in your bid?

>From the sound of your question, you're the BCO and wondering whether to
accept this protection strategy; however, I'll bet you should focus on what
they've asked for you to provide.
DON'T take on the role of the EOR, the Architect has defined the work as he
sees it in his professional opinion. You're not entitled to one.


George L.  Church, Jr., CET
Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc.
PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842
877-324-ROWE       570-837-6335 fax
[email protected]



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rod DiBona
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 8:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: building code tradeoff

We have a project where the architect has stated the following:


1.      We have installed draftstops in the attic space to subdivide the
space into areas less than 3000 sf.


2.      We are installing the fire protection system in the basement
according to 903.2.11.1.


3.      We are installing fire protection on the first and second floors to
allow a reduction in fire rating of the corridor walls, stairs, and the wall
separating the courtroom A3 from the B occupancy.


4.      We are installing the draftstops in the attic space and not
accepting the reduction but utilitzing the exception to 901.2.



5.      The architect has stated that only the basement is required to be
sprinklered.

This is a new courthouse. This is an architect that we have done work with
and he is sharp but I don't see read the IBC the same way. First we were
questioning not sprinklering the combustible attic. We don't have the water
available to do a dry system in that attic without a fire pump. I don't
think the reductions can be taken on first and second floor unless the
entire building is sprinklered per NFPA 13. Can he subdivide with draftstops
and then take the rating reductions on the first and second floor? I don't
think so but even if I am wrong and this can be done, wouldn't we still have
to increase our area on the second floor to 3,000ft? If so we would need the
pump anyway. Thanks for your input.

Rod DiBona
Rapid Fire






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