The louvers are one of the thoughts I had for this (I referred to it as a grate). The additional minimum temperature is probably a good idea. Since this is a primary residence for the owner, I don't think that would be much of a problem. Installing any ductwork within the joist space is not practical (plus I told him full insulation on both sides). The HSWs will not work due to the geometry of the space.
At 11:52 AM 6/24/2011, you wrote: >As Ron say's "Heat Loss" We have handled this similar to what you propose >with two exceptions. To promote "Positive" heating of the branch line, we >had a 6x12 open louver installed at the low end of the "chase" (joist space) >and at the high end. Then convection did the rest. We also sent a CYA letter >stating that our design required that the space heating maintain a minimum >of 60'F as opposed to the 40'F allowed by NFPA. We made sure to state that >freezing could occur if there was any failure of the heating system during >the heating season. > >Also due to another issue that has occurred with this type of installation, >require the GC to insure that there are no ducts or exhaust duct (bathroom >exhaust or kitchen hood)allowed in this or the adjacent joist space. (Those >little flappy back-draft dampers tend to stick open allowing cold air back >into the unit, if it's near your pipe it will freeze.) > >Lastly, is there a reason you're not looking at HSW heads "Down the slope" >spray pattern? We have used these in the past to avoid exactly what your >doing. > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman >Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 8:24 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: > >The question becomes what is the heat loss through the insulation in >relation to the heat gain in the room. Presume no insulation and the roof is >still a barrier and still has a R value. So if my heat loss is X.zero and my >input (at the same point) is equal to (1) X.zero or increased to (2) >X.something and my starting temperature was 70F then I will maintain >(scenario (1)) or increase (scenario 2)) the temperature at that point in >the room. An ice cave is a shelter because it protects your body from the >wind which conducts heat away from your heat engine (metabolism) and >confines the air space around you and insulates that space from rapid heat >transfer to the larger environment, hence lessening the your radiant heat >loss. It's all about the thermal balance. Now back to the Ashram. > >On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Todd Williams <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I am working on a small mixed-use building with commercial space on the >> first floor and an apartment with loft above. Part of the apartment has a >> cathedral ceiling, which needs to have sprinklers on the slope. No other >> options. The roof is framed with 2x10s and they plan to use a spray in >foam >> insulation the entire depth of the joists. My thought was if they took one >> joist bay and only put 5" of insulation and create a space to run the >pipe. >> Would that be sufficient to prevent pipe from freezing? I also thought >about >> putting a small grate at the bottom and top of the channel to allow heat >to >> flow into the space. Has anyone done anything like that before? Thoughts >on >> weather it would work? Not a lot of options and I don't want to go with an >> antifreeze system >> >> Todd G. Williams, PE >> Fire Protection Design/Consulting >> Stonington, CT >> 860.535.2080 >> www.fpdc.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > >-- >Ron Greenman >Instructor >Fire Protection Engineering Technology >Bates Technical College >1101 So. Yakima Ave. >Tacoma, WA 98405 > >[email protected] > >http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > >253.680.7346 >253.576.9700 (cell) > >Member: >ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > >They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, >essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >_______________________________________________ >Sprinklerforum mailing list >[email protected] >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) Todd G. Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860.535.2080 www.fpdc.com _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
