I don't think this is your problem. It's an alarm problem. You just need to
provide a means to trigger an alarm. Hereabouts a normal is a fire alarm
system in common areas with an attached peizo in each unit and local smoke
alarms throughout the units. But I don't care about this as the sprinkie. I
supply a means to alarm from a flow. The rest is someone else's work. Local
exterior alarm is another thing altogether. Don't work too hard solving
someone else's (usually the GC) problem.


On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Steve Leyton <[email protected]>wrote:

> Last cycle, when we were discussing yet another proposal to require a
> mandatory local waterflow alarm in 13D, I asked out loud why it would be
> so difficult to do just as Todd's fire official directed, i.e. use the
> smoke detector loop as an audible network.  And the answer is as simple
> as most of the other "gotcha's" in our business:  These appliances
> aren't listed as a audible alarm device.   And how you power them with a
> flow switch could vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and many
> likely can't be configured that way.
>
> If anyone out there knows of a listed combination smoke
> detector/interior audible alarm device, please send me that info off
> forum at your very earliest convenience.  If such an item doesn't yet
> exist, perhaps the good people at Potter or System Sensor or another
> manufacturer will see a business opportunity ...
>
>
> Steve Leyton
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
> John Drucker - Home
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 2:08 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: 13R local alarm
>
> Todd,  How old are the smoke alarms ?, at 10 yrs. their due for
> replacement anyway.
>
> As I commented earlier, a prescriptive way to solve the issue.
>
> John Drucker, CET
> Fire Protection Subcode Official
> Fire / Building / Electrical Inspector
> New Jersey
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
> Todd - Work
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:25 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: 13R local alarm
>
> The FM asked for the sprinkler alarms to be connected to ring the smoke
> detectors. I asked if a separate bell would be acceptable. The present
> system is essentially residential hard wired smokes. I'm not sure if all
> of the devices in each unit go off when one activates. There is no
> annunciation. I don't think the detectors are wired to accept additional
> input, so the entire system would have to be replaced if we have to
> interconnect. Right now they are not being asked to upgrade the alarms
> and this is not a town with a wimpy fire marshal.
>
> The alarm system is beyond my contract and the drawing notes state so.
> That is a can of worms I will let someone else open.
>
> Todd G Williams, PE
> Fire Protection Design/Consulting
> Stonington, CT
> www.fpdc.com
>
> On May 29, 2013, at 3:07 PM, "Tom Duross" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > We had a local town home rule go into effect 15+ years ago requiring
> > sprinklers in anything 3+ units "substantially" renovated but it
> > forgot to mention annunciation (also forgot water supply).  Many slick
>
> > property owners got together and sued and after the dust settled, it
> > was decided to put an electric bell in the stair lobby or main lobby
> > of each unit plus the outside.  No formal fire alarm was required.
> > I've done the accessory relay to wire a dry contact to a 3 wire 120
> > vac smoke circuit but it voids the listing of the smokes, or did (been
>
> > many years).
> > These days Todd, I don't know how you could install a sprinkler system
>
> > under current MA code and not have to install a formal 72 FA.  3 units
>
> > or more requires supervision and central station in MA.
> > TD
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected]
> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
> > Mike Henke
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:43 AM
> > To: [email protected];
> > [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: 13R local alarm
> >
> > It may be possible to activate both the smoke alarms and a separate
> > waterflow alarm.
> > The flowswitch should have 2 sets of contacts.
> > One switch can activate a local alarm such as the 120 vac mini horn
> > The other switch may be able to activate the smoke alarms.
> >
> > This would provide the additional signal for waterflow so it wouldn't
> > be confused with burnt toast.
> >
> > You probably have to contact the detector manufacturer to see how and
> > if the detectors can be activated from a separate switch. They may
> > have a separate module for this.
> > There are some products on the market for this such as Firex but I
> > don't know if they universally work with all makes and models of smoke
> alarms.
> > There was also a carrier frequency device made by Cepco products for
> this.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
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-- 
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology
Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405

[email protected]

http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/

253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)

Member:
ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC

They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon,
essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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