I about shit myself when I saw Licking instead of kicking after it was too late
Sent from my iPhone On Jun 11, 2013, at 9:34 PM, "Steve Leyton" <st...@protectiondesign.com> wrote: > I've been hanging blinds, and just now have the time to note this most > extraordinary turn of the thread. I got nothing - this may be the greatest > correspondence in the history of the Forum. > > Remember back in 1997 or thereabout, when an errant email home from some kid > in the Midwest (no, not you Brad) was updating her parents about how much fun > she was having at Grandma and Grandpa's, and that evening they enjoyed a > great visit with the Slotnicks? Good times. > > Yessir, Mr. Muncy. On topic from hereto forward, siryessir! > > SL > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org on behalf of Ron Greenman > Sent: Tue 6/11/2013 5:53 PM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Subject: Re: adjusting the K-Factor with our bare hands > > I love the 1. Typo. or 2. Auto Correct. or 3. Freudian ????? or 4. Slotism. > > "...and I'm licking myself...." > > You just keep "hanging out with the woman and licking yourself." It's not a > pretty picture, but it will be now and forever be how I think of you. > > As my father-in-laws dementia advanced, but before he was totally lost we > were over at his house. My eldest son and I were hanging with him when a > couple of family friends showed up. These were both women, both our age > (not his), long time family friends, and under normal circumstances would > be very recognizable to him. Note that both always were way too much > make-up. On this particular occasion he didn't remember who they were and > his comment was, and totally out of normal character, " Hey! Who ordered > the hookers?" He passed away a bit over a year ago but when I think of him > it's saying and I always chuckle. You just keep licking yourself for a long > time, OK. > > And let Leyton Yosemite Sam out on Brad. > > > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 5:32 PM, George Church <g...@rowesprinkler.com>wrote: > >> Brad >> I'd rather spend my remaining time with my wife and I'm licking myself for >> saying anything. Btw who might be accepting this for the jurisdiction? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jun 11, 2013, at 3:56 PM, "Brad Casterline" <bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Matt and Ron. I appreciate ALL feedback. >>> I like posting numbers because there is no opinion, personal feelings, >>> hearsay, etc. I know a ton about D-W and H-W, and I do not need to repeat >>> the Velocity of Efflux experiments of the early 1600's to know I am >> correct >>> about K-Factors. Would it be too much to ask of you to simply work a few >> of >>> the numbers that back up the concepts I post, BEFORE I get your >> Criticisms >>> and Opinions? Either that or YOU show ME how it is done- adjusting >> K-Factors >>> I mean, from NFPA 13 referenced earlier? >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ron Greenman [mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 2:03 PM >>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >>> Subject: Re: adjusting the K-Factor with our bare hands >>> >>> can I say strongly enough how much I agree with what Matt said? can I say >>> it again? And third time being the charm, I agree with what Matt said--a >>> lot--and with George's earlier comments. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Matt Grise <m...@afpsprink.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I would strongly caution against using this method for estimate >>>> calculations. (Without doing extensive testing to verify that it is >>>> accurate) >>>> >>>> The D-W and H-W calculation methods are simply approximations of how >>>> fluids interact with themselves and the pipe they are in. The H-W >> equation >>>> and the K-factor concept are two VERY specialized cases that are >> intended >>>> only to describe warm water in pipes coming out of a smooth hole. >>>> >>>> The k-factor only relates the ease with which water can escape a >>>> sprinkler. If you plug in a modified k-factor, you are still using H-W >> to >>>> describe how the fluid is moving through the pipes. The reason that you >>>> have to switch to the D-W equation is because H-W will give you the >> wrong >>>> answer. If you use a modified K factor with H-W (instead of D-W) the >> most >>>> likely outcome is a wrong answer - although maybe not the same wrong >>> answer >>>> as before. >>>> >>>> Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP, NICET II >>>> Sales Engineer >>>> Alliance Fire Protection >>>> 130 w 9th Ave. >>>> North Kansas City, MO 64116 >>>> >>>> *Licensed in KS & MO >>>> >>>> 913.888.0647 ph >>>> 913.888.0618 f >>>> 913.927.0222 cell >>>> www. AFPsprink.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 11, 2013, at 7:52 AM, "Brad Casterline" <bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From NFPA 13-2007, 22.4.4.5.1, we are required to, among other things, >>>>> adjust the K-Factor. >>>>> >>>>> Using the Hazen-Williams friction formula, 62.4 lb/ft3 / 144 in2 = >> .433 >>>>> lb/in2/ft(h). >>>>> >>>>> If we have an AF solution at 65.5 lb/ft3, / 144 = .455 lb/in2/ft(h). >>>>> >>>>> If K=5.6, and we assume P=7 PSI.: >>>>> >>>>> 7/.433=16.166 ft(h). 7/.455=15.385 ft(h).* >>>>> >>>>> 15.385/16.166=.952. sqrt(.952)=.976, x 5.6 = 5.46. >>>>> >>>>> There is a chart in 13 showing a 50% glycerin solution at about -10F >>>>> weighing about 15% more than 100% water: 62.4 x 1.15 = 71.76. >>>>> 71.76/144=.498. 7/.498=14.056 ft(h). 14.056/16.166=.869. >>>> sqrt(.869)=.932, x >>>>> 5.6 = 5.22. >>>>> >>>>> If I had to fab the pipe today and formalize the submittal tomorrow >>>> (after >>>>> googling centipoises for several hours) I would calc it like it was >> 'all >>>>> wet', using K=5.22. >>>>> >>>>> * converting PSI to feet of head(h) it is seen that the denser the >>>> solution, >>>>> the 'shorter' it is. Since v=sqrt(2gh), the shorter it is the slower it >>>> is. >>>>> Making the adjustment based on "h", we have to take the square root of >>>> the >>>>> ratio, i.e., (K=Q/sqrtP). If adjusted based on velocity we would use >> the >>>>> ratio itself (square feet=cubic feet per second divided by feet per >>>> second): >>>>> sqrt(2*32.2*16.166)=32.266 ft/sec. >>>>> >>>>> sqrt(2*32.2*15.385)=31.477 ft/sec. >>>>> >>>>> 31.477/32.266=.976. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The above is simply the type of thing I enjoy doing and like to share, >>>>> hoping it will cause no harm, to be taken or left as one sees fit. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> thanks, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Brad Casterline, NICET IV >>>>> >>>>> Fire Protection Division >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> FSC, Inc. >>>>> >>>>> P: 913-722-3473 >>>>> >>>>> bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com >>>>> >>>>> www.fsc-inc.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Engineering Solutions for the Built Environment >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ron Greenman >>> (???????? ???? ????? 6 ??????) >>> Instructor >>> Fire Protection Engineering Technology >>> Bates Technical College >>> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >>> Tacoma, WA 98405 >>> >>> rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu >>> >>> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >>> >>> 253.680.7346 >>> 253.576.9700 (cell) >>> >>> Member: >>> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC >>> >>> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >> Bacon, >>> essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, > essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
