Steve is playing engineer - perfectly actuate answer but not terribly useful in 
most applications with regards to the changes to NFPA 13R. :-P

IBC would be the predominate building code (or model) in the US, seeing this 
forum is mostly US based contractors thus: 

[F] 903.3.1.2 NFPA 13R sprinkler systems.
Automatic sprinkler systems in Groupo R occupancies up to and including four 
stories in height shall be permitted to be installed throughout in accordance 
with NFPA 13R.

So it doesn't matter what they do with the title, scope or annex of 13R.  I 
suspect there are very few places where you are getting past 4 stories.  

But even if you use NFPA 5000 you are still stuck at 4 stories until at least  
2015 edition comes out. 

55.3 Automatic Sprinklers.
55.3.1 General.
55.3.1.1* Each automatic sprinkler system required by another section of this 
Code shall be in accordance with one of the following:
(1) NFPA 13, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems
(2) NFPA 13R, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems in Residential 
Occupancies up to and Including Four Stories in Height
(3) NFPA 13D, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems in One and 
Two-Family Dwellings and Manufactured Homes

Even in places with no code the Arch of record is probably required to use some 
level of good judgment.  Many Boards think this is following relevant model 
codes.  Hard to say IBC or NFPA 5000 is not the most widely used model building 
codes.

So even taking Steve's advice, 'But keep in mind that this is all about what 
your locally adopted code allows' (which again is perfectly accurate), anyone 
got any way to get to the usefulness of the mentioned changes to 13R?

Chris Cahill, PE*
Associate Fire Protection Engineer 
Burns & McDonnell
Phone:  952.656.3652
Fax:  952.229.2923
[email protected]
www.burnsmcd.com
*Registered in: MN


Proud to be #14 on FORTUNE's 2014 List of 100 Best Companies to Work For





-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of Rod DiBona
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 6 Story Hotel

Great Post Steve. Thank you for the education. Was NOT aware of this.

Rod at Rapid

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of Steve Leyton
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 10:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 6 Story Hotel

Brian:

As I'm sure you know, the standard was titled for many years, "Installation of 
Sprinkler Systems in Residential Occupancies up to and Including Four Stories 
in Height", but is now titled, "... in Low-Rise
Residential Occupancies".   (For whatever it's worth, I voted against
this as it's vague and not entirely aligned with existing definitions in
code(s) and standard(s).    However, in the 2013, Section 1.1 it very
clearly states that the standard covers residential occupancies up to 60' (18 
m) above grade plane (as defined in the applicable building code).  The annex 
material clarifies that this height is coincidental to the limit for Type V 
construction, and so is aligned with the code in that regard and implies intent 
to most closely manage Type V buildings,
which are almost always wood framed in R-group occupancies.   So
literally and as written, if you have a 5- or 6-story building where the height 
of the highest floor is 60' or less and it's of a construction type other than 
Type V-A (which the code limits to 4 STORIES), then the answer to your question 
(surprisingly) is yes, you can use 13R, taking it literally as it's written.

But keep in mind that this is all about what your locally adopted code allows, 
and the code generally tells us when we can and can't use a
particular type of sprinkler system.   You can't take a 13R for an extra
story except in R-2, and you can't take it in lieu of fire resistive 
construction.  And just because 13R leaves itself open to application in 
buildings of Type III or II construction that may exceed four stories, your 
code or building official may not.  Also remember that if your code doesn't 
reference the 2013 NFPA sprinkler standards, the older editions are still 
implicitly limited to four stories.

The foregoing is my opinion only and does not necessarily represent the opinion 
or intent of the NFPA 13D/13R Technical Committee on Residential Sprinkler 
Systems.  Not only that, this is a slippery slope so I also disclaim the email 
chatter that's sure to follow, the second guessing and the uproar.

Steve Leyton
Protection Design & Consulting
San Diego, CA



-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian 
Harris
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 8:40 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 6 Story Hotel

Having a little debate here in the office..... Looking at a 6 story hotel and 
(1) person wants to use NFPA-13R & (1) says you can't because it's over 4 
stories and you must use NFPA-13. Comments welcome .... :)

Brian Harris, CET
BVS Systems Inc.
Sprinkler Division
bvssystemsinc.com<http://bvssystemsinc.com/>
Phone: 704.896.9989
Fax: 704.896.1935

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