It beats me Ron-- too complex-- extremely interesting though and hopefully some TC members will feel like doing some 'splainin. It is Friday on The Forum after all...
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 9:34 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: ESFR Table 17.2.3.1 NFPA 13 2013 I disagree. S-1 occupancies have roof slopes less than 2/12 so they are considered flat and I have seen many ceilings that are sloped greater than 2/12. Also there are warehouses with a couple high bays of 50-60' with the rest of the building at 40'-36'. Applying NFPA's interpretation would mean that the <40' area would have to be area density with in-racks because ESFR's could not be used in the high bays. Designing all systems for the highest roof area doesn't make any sense. Where does it stop? Do we have to use ESFR's under a 20' high mezzanine in a 40' warehouse? Ron F -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad Casterline Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 7:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: ESFR Table 17.2.3.1 NFPA 13 2013 Peak indicates sloped and I think that is what bothers the TC. If it was flat there would be no diff between a ceiling and a roof. Several months ago Mr Scandaliato (sp?) alluded to having some inside info about this. I offered up a case of beer if he could put it in a nutshell but it likely ended up in his junk mail, being from me and all. > On Aug 21, 2014, at 9:04 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Wouldn't be the first time I thought the NFPA interp was wrong and I think that again now. > > Ron fletcher Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 21, 2014, at 4:34 PM, "Steven P. Biship" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I actually called NFPA a couple weeks ago for an "unofficial interpretation" >> for this exact subject with regards to ESFR sprinkler installations. >> I was told that the term "Maximum Ceiling/Roof Height" found in the >> tables applies to the maximum building height of the structure, >> regardless of the area of storage. I personally don't agree but that was what I was told. >> >> Steven P. Biship, FPE, CFPS >> 4214 Floyd Drive >> Corona, Ca. 92883 >> >> P: 951-427-3781 >> F: 951-427-3655 >> C: 714-984-4346 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sprinklerforum >> [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of Parsley Consulting >> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:57 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: ESFR Table 17.2.3.1 NFPA 13 2013 >> >> Greg, >> I would look at the definition of ceiling height in 3.3.3: >> >> 3.3.3 Ceiling Height. The distance between the floor and the >> underside of the ceiling above (or roof deck) within the area. >> >> It would seem to me that this definition backs up the perspective >> that Ron has added. >> >> Has nothing to do with the roof height, only the height of the >> ceiling in the area of storage. >> >> If a storage area in a high rise had an 28' ceiling, and yet the >> building was 22 floors high, you certainly would not design based on >> a 22 story "ceiling height." >> >> Just one perspective. >> *Ken Wagoner, SET >> *Parsley Consulting*** >> *350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206 >> *Escondido, CA 92025-5053 >> *****Phone 760.745.6181* >> Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> *** On >> 8/21/2014 3:46 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>> I would say the maximum height is meant to apply the area of storage >>> and >> not the maximum height of the entire building. "A.17.2.3 Storage in >> single-story or multistory buildings can be permitted, provided the >> maximum ceiling/roof height as specified in chapter 12 is satisfied >> for each storage area." If there were a high bay above 48' with in >> racks and the remainder of the building was at <40' would you use area density with in racks in the 40' >> area because there are no ESFR's listed for greater than 48'? >>> Ron F >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> Gregg Fontes >>> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:06 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: ESFR Table 17.2.3.1 NFPA 13 2013 >>> >>> A question has come up that in Table 17.2.3.1 the column that states >> Maximum Ceiling/Roof Height applies to the maximum Ceiling/Roof >> height of the building, not the storage area. As an example, if a >> warehouse has cartoned expanded plastics storage to 25' high in a >> portion of the warehouse that has a roof/ceiling height of under 32', >> but the ridge height of the building is 33'-0, they are suggesting >> that the cartoned expanded plastic cannot be stored in the building >> because the ridge height (not the area of >> storage) is above 32'. There reasoning is that the table applies to >> the entire building, not the area of storage. Therefore if the >> highest point of the building exceeds the list table height, even >> though the storage area roof height is under the table height, the >> table cannot apply. Is this a correct assumption or is the maximum >> height meant to apply to the area of storage? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Gregg Fontes >>> Cen-Cal Fire Systems, Inc. >>> 209-334-9119 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>> kl er.org _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>> kl >>> er.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> ler.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> ler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
