Travis
You are absolutely correct. Bad choice of words for these small
systems. I should of used the largest system pipe size not system demand
where the system piping is smaller than 4". It is their connection that is
important to the fire service.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Travis Mack
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 11:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Riser Size - FDC size
This is an interesting issue on the FDC. My understanding is the FDC on a
*sprinkler *system is not required to accommodate the largest sprinkler
demand. It is a supplement to the main water supply.
Otherwise, we would be calculating the FDC piping for all systems, like we
do a manual standpipe system.
For example, is a fire dept connection required to be sized to supply an
ESFR sprinkler system with 45' of storage and K25 ESFR sprinklers? If so,
that 4" FDC put on the building is not near adequate. Now, I am not saying
it is not a bad idea, and we are always allowed to do more than the minimum
required by NFPA 13. But, I don't believe that NFPA 13 mandates that the FDC
be capable of fully supplying the fire sprinkler systems. Note: This does
not stand true for manual standpipe systems.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
2508 E Lodgepole Drive
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
email:[email protected]
http://www.mfpdesign.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
On 12/3/2014 9:30 AM, Dick Culver wrote:
> Brian
> The FDC supply piping should be sized to accommodate the largest
> sprinkler demand. The FDC should be sized to accommodate the local
> fire service. FDC size smaller than 4", on most cases, requires the
> fire service to carry adaptors to connect to a smaller size even
> though it is acceptable by standard. On small systems the FDC pipe
> size may be 2 1/2" but the FDC itself is 4". This allows the fire
> service to quickly connect to the system in an emergency with their
> standard equipment. The local fire should make the call.
>
> Dick Culver
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sprinklerforum
> [mailto:[email protected]]
> On Behalf Of Brian Harris
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 10:42 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Riser Size
>
> Thanks Travis-
> I guess I should have mentioned that this job has (2) systems, (1) wet
> & (1) dry that's why I was saying the FDC had to be 4". I will get in
> touch with the civil guy and ask for some calc's though.
>
> Brian Harris, CET
> BVS Systems Inc.
> bvssytemsinc.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sprinklerforum
> [mailto:[email protected]]
> On Behalf Of Travis Mack
> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 10:39 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Riser Size
>
> FDC does not have to be 4". It can be smaller. We see this a lot with
> apartments designed to nfpa 13. A 2" supply can often feed sprinklers
> with the right conditions.
>
> I have run into cases where the civil has sized the underground too
> small. I just send the info from NFPA 13 & 24 that says minimum 6"
> unless hydraulically calculated. I ask them to provide calculations if
> the UG size is causing us problems. If no calculations then we state
> either it has to be a 6" pipe or a change order for increased interior
> piping due to improperly sized supply lines.
>
> Travis Mack, SET
> MFP Design, LLC
> "Follow" us on Facebook:
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
> Send large files to MFP Design via:
> https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 3, 2014, at 8:19 AM, Brian Harris <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> Todd-
>> What's your take on the FDC coming off the Riser & the 2" underground?
>>
>> Brian Harris, CET
>> BVS Systems Inc.
>> bvssytemsinc.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sprinklerforum
>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
>> Todd - Work
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 9:58 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: Riser Size
>>
>> I have always sized them by hydraulic calculation (or pipe schedule).
>> No
> minimums.
>> Todd G Williams, PE
>> Fire Protection Design/Consulting
>> Stonington, CT
>> www.fpdc.com
>> 860-535-2080 (ofc)
>>
>>> On Dec 3, 2014, at 9:43 AM, Brian Harris <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>> I can't seem to put my finger on it this morning but is there a
>>> minimum
> size requirement for the Riser in a 13 system? I know there is for the
> FDC connection and the underground main to the building but I don't
> see anything the limits the size of the Riser except the hydraulic
> calculations. In this particular job the FDC is located on the Riser
> so I assume the Riser would at least have to be 4" up to the FDC
> connection. Currently the civil drawing is show a 2" supply to the
building from a 6" underground main....
>>> Brian Harris, CET
>>> BVS Systems Inc.
>>> Sprinkler Division
>>> bvssystemsinc.com<http://bvssystemsinc.com/>
>>> Phone: 704.896.9989
>>> Fax: 704.896.1935
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin
>>> k
>>> ler.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink
>> l er.org _______________________________________________
>> Sprinklerforum mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink
>> l
>> er.org
> _______________________________________________
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl
> er.org _______________________________________________
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl
> er.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sprinklerforum mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl
> er.org
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
_______________________________________________
Sprinklerforum mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
