That's why I said to fill the system with fresh water. After an event, if there ever is one, the piping can be flushed before refilling, similarly to flushing the pipes after a wet chem discharge. But thorough documentation of the operations procedure is essential as is passing the word as things change. This is probably the greatest challenge and the point of most likely failure. The engineering is easy enough to do, and an Operations and Procedures Manual easy enough to compile, but getting that info into the hands of those that actually touch the pig... Well, that's always a different story.
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Bruce Verhei <[email protected]> wrote: > Chlorine or bromine agents used as disinfectants react stongly with many > metals to create salts. > > Naturally occurring hot spring water tends to have dissolved solids. These > precipitate out when the water cools. > > Each of these problems would disqualify swimming pool water as a source. > > Other hazard of sucking people in? This is not a problem with proper > engineering, including documenting design for future maintenance. > Documentation of design intent is more important than actual calculations. > > Failure to provide design documentation to operations was one of the > contributing factors at Piper Alpha. Engineers had done a good job of > ensuring flow speed at inlet screens to fire pumps was low enough that a > gentle off push would be adequate for a diver who passively allowed himself > to be held against the screen. But communication between design and > operations was not planned for. System was shut down commonly due to divers > needless fear of being sucked against screens. Result was tragedy on > massive scale. > > > > > On Mar 7, 2016, at 08:57, <[email protected]> <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Ok, so maybe there needs to be some clarification. Typically pools and > these other sources are not hard-piped fixed sources. They are usually > used as a draft source through fire apparatus not a fixed, site fire pump. > If that's the intent, then no, not a good idea. > > > > Craig L. Prahl > > Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > > CH2MHILL > > Lockwood Greene > > 1500 International Drive > > Spartanburg, SC 29303 > > Direct - 864.599.4102 > > Fax - 864.599.8439 > > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams > > Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 11:46 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Pool as Firewater Source > > > > Unless it is a pre-planned fire, you may not be able to get everyone out > of the pool before the fire pump kicks in. You don't always get a lot of > lead time. > > > > Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT > > 860-535-2080 (ofc) 860-608-4559 (cell) > > Sent using CloudMagic > > [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=ti&cv=6.0.64&pv=8.2] > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:40 AM, [email protected] < > [email protected]> > > wrote: > > Um, if there's a fire and the pool was being used as a suction source, > I'd think they would require everyone out of the pool? > > > > It is not uncommon to use swimming pools as a fire water source in lieu > of a storage tank. Also decorative fountain ponds, cooling tower basins, > etc. > > > > Craig L. Prahl > > Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > > CH2MHILL > > Lockwood Greene > > 1500 International Drive > > Spartanburg, SC 29303 > > Direct - 864.599.4102 > > Fax - 864.599.8439 > > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sprinklerforum > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Todd Williams > > Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 11:35 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Pool as Firewater Source > > > > You might have a health code issue with that. How could you prevent > someone from getting stuck in a suction line? There are strict requirements > as far as pool recirculating drains and I am not sure you could meet those > with a fire pump suction line. That could create a huge liability problem. > I was asked to look at one of these a few years back and I suggested they > call my competition. > > > > Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT > > 860-535-2080 (ofc) 860-608-4559 (cell) > > Sent using CloudMagic > > [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=ti&cv=6.0.64&pv=8.2] > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Richard Mote <[email protected] > > > > wrote: > > Other than the fact that I don't think it's a good idea. Is there > anything an any code that prohibits the use of a heated swimming pool as a > fire pump source. > > We've actually done one using an indoor pool at a hotel. This would be > an outdoor pool, using geo-thermal heating. > > > > Richard L. Mote CET > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, inventor and engineer (1876-1958) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
