This answer I like. Time to dig in to AWWA. Thanks
John Irwin Critical System Solutions Sprinkler Construction Manager 813-618-2781<tel:813-618-2781> jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com<mailto:jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com> Sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, spelling errors and punctuation gaffes. -------- Original message -------- From: craig.pr...@ch2m.com Date: 06/23/2016 11:57 AM (GMT-05:00) To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Two Backflows The AWWA has requirements for Backflow Prevention and Cross Connection mitigation which are followed by the water purveyors. It sounds like you have a deficiency and coordination issue in the plans you were given. I would be drafting an RFI to the GC asking them to contact the EOR for clarification on the design. You cannot leave the potable unprotected by not having a backflow on the sprinkler connection to the potable. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenville, SC 29607 Direct - 864.920.7540 Fax - 864.920.7129 CH2MHILL Extension 77540 craig.pr...@ch2m.com From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Irwin Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:47 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Two Backflows Yes I understand what I should do, but it’s not my place to go around the general contractor, engineer, owner and architect. Only to advise. We have an approved site plan and I have an approved sprinkler shop drawing. If viewed at the same time the issue becomes apparent. When viewed and permitted separately by different entities inside the AHJ office, the trouble is less visible. Asking about it would most likely trigger the requirement. And while I think we should have a backflow, without a code or ordinance to back me up … there isn’t much I can do. John Irwin Sprinkler Construction Manager Critical System Solutions, LLC Cell: 813.618.2781 Email: jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com<mailto:jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of craig.pr...@ch2m.com<mailto:craig.pr...@ch2m.com> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:41 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: Two Backflows Fire Sprinkler systems are served off of domestic potable water lines all over the place. Very common. Your requirement to protect the potable water is coming from the local water purveyor or health department not from NFPA 13. This protection of the potable system has been around for decades. You should be contacting the local water department to find out what type of backflow device they require and get direction from them. That’s your first stop in this matter. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenville, SC 29607 Direct - 864.920.7540 Fax - 864.920.7129 CH2MHILL Extension 77540 craig.pr...@ch2m.com<mailto:craig.pr...@ch2m.com> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Irwin Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:16 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: Two Backflows I use RPZ as a generic term. Also I am going under the assumption that I MUST separate my sprinkler from the domestic at the point of connection. However it was brought to my attention that this may not be required in NFPA anyway. While the thought of sprinkler water and domestic water sickens me a bit … can someone show me where NFPA says I must separate them with a backflow? John Irwin Sprinkler Construction Manager Critical System Solutions, LLC Cell: 813.618.2781 Email: jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com<mailto:jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:07 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: Two Backflows I don’t think there’s any prohibition and we’ve been asked to do this before. I would check with serving water and fire departments to be sure that both devices satisfy the requirement of their respective masters. RPZ’s are not UL classified for fire service and usually configured with non-indicating valves for general water service. NFPA standards require ALL valves controlling fire protection water supplies to be LISTED (for fire service) indicating type and building code requires them to be supervised. Have fun … Steve From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Irwin Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 8:03 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: Two Backflows I am working on a project where the developer and site contractor have decided that fire and domestic should share an underground line around the site and to the building. At the street there is a meter assembly and a Wilkins 375A RPZ. I would need to install an additional backflow at my point of connection because the line is shared all the way to the water room. Other than being a dumb way to do this and having two pressure losses in my calculations, is there any code that says I can’t gave two RPZs in my water line? John Irwin Sprinkler Construction Manager Critical System Solutions, LLC 2830 Scherer Drive, Suite 300 St. Petersburg, FL 33716 Office: 727.209.5122 Fax: 727.209.5126 Cell: 813.618.2781 Email: jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com<mailto:jir...@criticalsystemsolutions.com>
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